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How tricky is it to wire to the internal driver and bypass the internal Magnepan terminal block? Is it best to loosen the wire with a hair dryer, then solder new wire from the driver foil onto a set of real termination blocks? Or simply run a longer wire straight to the crossover box from the driver, thereby removing a connection?
Follow Ups:
My MMGs and MG12s came with the driver wires clamped down under taps with small screws through them. The wires from the crossovers where connectrd to the tabs with push on spades.The tabs already has small holes in them, but I enlarged the holes to take the 14 gauge crossover wires I wanted to use.
So if your speaker has this setup, make note of which wire goes where, unplug the old crossover wires from the tabs, carefully unscrew each tab removing it from the driver wire laying under it, so the heat from the soldering does not affect the driver, solder your new crossover wire to the tab, ProGold all wires, then replace the tab onto the driver wire as it was stock.I think thats the safest way of doing it and you eliminate that push on spade.
I recently did this on my 1.6's. I used new wire from Welborne and pulled the slip on spade type things off the plate they connect to and ran my new wire straight from the caps to the plate. I unscrewed the little pressure plate and sandwiched my new wire to the driver wires underneath the pressure plate and locked it back down with the screw, so I had wire to wire contact. However, Peter Gunn is right that you DEFINITELY don't want to solder there. The wires from the panels are extremely delicate and fragile and can be burned through or broken very easily, the bass panel wires moreso than the tweeter ribbons. The major risk that I would see is the heat from your iron zooming up that foil tweeter and doing God knows what by the time it reached the end of it.
why don't you read first.
I did read. I related my own experience. Didn't realize it had been copyrighted.
To be fair, his post wasn't EXACTLY like yours.
When I rewired my MG12s using single strands of magwire, I just unscrewed the tabs a little without removing them, made a hook shape of the stripped end of the magwire, slipped it underneath the tab, then screwed it down tight again. No soldering. I could not seem to remove the spades terminating the old crossover wire, so just cut the wire off and left the spades as they were.Is it worth going back under the sock to get rid of these spades, and if so, how are they removed?
No, I wouldn't go back in there for that, the sock is too hard to work with.
The spades have a little locking piece that snaps down in a hole in the tab, so you have to pry it out of that hole with a small screwdriver, then it comes off easy.
Thats the same hole I enlarged to solder my wires through.I didn't put the 14g DHLabs under the tab as it being so thick the little tab screw couldn't handle it.
That is precisely what I did and it is the ONLY thing I would recommend. You're asking for trouble if you try to connect directly to the panel strips - heed “PG's” warning! You DON'T want to try it. Do as “ABliss” instructed and you will have eliminated the cheesy part of that connector block – there is nothing wrong with that screw-down connection point. Actually the spades are okay in theory, but in my MMGs most of the wires pulled right out of their spades with rather little tugging (not what I’d consider a positive electrical connection).
W,Your MMgs look different than mine. (I have the 1st version, and it looks like the wires on your are "tied down" or come through the wood to connect.
The leads on the ones I have were free and easy to remove. If the new MMGS are like the ones pictured, I get why everyone is saying not to do it, or to ru-euse the stock clamp.
Look at this pict, aren't these different than the ones you have?
but they look pretty similar. The original post in this thread concerned SOLDERING directly to the panel runs - not a good idea. You didn't do that either, but you were pretty bold. In any case, I really don't see anything wrong with the screw-down connections for those runs. I did exactly what "ABliss" described - just seemed like the right thing to do when I took mine apart. The picture in my reply illustrated lifting the runs BEFORE doing any soldering (also shows the woofer tabs drilled (with a Dremel) for larger gauge wire).I'm not suggesting that you did something foolish - not at all. It's just not something I would recommend to most individuals. What I did was perfect for me since I was wiring up the "internal" crossover in this photo (taken before I made my braces or made better jumpers for the terminal strips). Of course, this all started as a little experiment that just kept mushrooming - now I'm ready to construct something more attractive. I'm satisfied with the sound of my MMGs raised and absolutely vertical (sorry PG), which is good because that's the only way I'm going to be able to put them "on top of" subwoofers.
I'm hoping to replace an aging (and it's beginning to show some signs) CRT TV later this year with a 42" or 46" 16:9 (either LCD or plasma). That means I'll have to build a new entertainment cabinet. I built our current one for the TV which is in it now and it simply won't work for anything else (it's pictured in the "Show us your Maggies" thread). I need more space for the other gear (you probably noticed that I had to make a little table for the SACD player) as well which means wider - hence there won't be enough floor space to have the REL next to the left MMG which is part of why I need to stack them.
Sorry for rambling...
Hey Wazzoo,I wasn't offended in the least. SOmetimes I wonder why I ever did it, but I am glad I did.
In any case, I really don't see anything wrong with the screw-down connections for those runs
Me neither for a normal user. BUt for a cable swapper or especially a bi-amper, the approach I took seems to work better. BUt I totally agree that for most what Abliss recommends is the way to go.
NOw, about your maggies. I don't think I was being clear. On mine the driver leads are lightly glued to the metal part ot the driver, and then are just routed to the terminals. But on the current generation that you pictured, it looks like the driver leads actually go through the wood to get to the terminal screws. Is this correct? Look at your photo then look at mine and you will see what I am talking about.
Said another way, can you do what I did with the new maggies?
The driver leads (panel runs, or whatever the proper term might be) are much the same as yours. The aluminum traces just looked so delicate that I wanted to disturb them as little as possible, and concerns about the "banana peel" syndrome made me feel the same way about the bass panel runs. So, I carefully "lifted" the runs before soldering new wires to the tabs.What you did was courageous! There's absolutely nothing wrong with reducing the number of connections in a chain - always a good thing. I'm glad it worked for you and you have the perfect setup for biamping (something I couldn't do because I just don't have anywhere to put another amp).
AB,This would work too. Here is the pict of what I think you are refering to:
OK, here's what a highly competent technician is going to do.
Solder Cardas Litz onto the existing wire just before it hits the spades. So I bypass the spade connection and run the wire straight to crossover box or actively run amplifiers. This means I bypass the entire Magnepan spades with a straight wire. The wire will be fastened to the back of the speaker so that the run that goes out from it can't be yanked loose.
Can you clarify this statement (before is a relative (to direction) term)? "Solder Cardas Litz onto the existing wire just before it hits the spades."If this means soldering onto the actual panel runs, I sincerely question the "highly competent technician" assertion. I've been a technician for 35 years and there is absolutely NO way I'd even consider such an act.
If this means ANYthing else (soldering the Cardas wire to ANY other existing wire - why?), that assertion is similarly suspect. The aluminum wiring (assuming your fine speakers use the same wire I found in my MMGs) should all be replaced. Ditch the wires with the spades and solder (or crimp) new spades to the new wires.
I'm not sure what the plan is, but I hope you don't find yourself needing what PG mentioned - crying towels!
BTW I'm assuming the Litz wire in question already has tinned ends, or your technician has a solder pot and intends to cut them to length and tin them before trying to solder them to the wires in question. Remember, each strand of a Litz bundle is coated with enamel.
Good Luck.
Are you referring to he aluminum wire in the internal crossover that leads to the spades?
But, the wires really weren't the worst part - the crimp job which secured the spades to those wires was quite poor in my estimation. That's only my opinion about what I found in my speakers - maybe others would disagree(?).
He would have to use a solder pot. Why not avoid the spade connection and just solder the wires together--that is, in effect, extend the existing wire with Cardas all the way to the crossover box?
There are two problems with that suggestion as I see it.In the first place, why "extend" the wires? That isn't an ideal practice - much better to *replace* the wires (all the way to the connector block). It isn't difficult in the least to remove the push on spades and solder to the tabs as outlined by "ABliss". Just follow his suggestions to the letter and "lift" the panel runs off those tabs before soldering (see the photo in my first post of this thread). This is another concern with your proposal - wires conduct heat quite effectively, so if your technician solders extensions to the existing wires, he will likely damage some very expensive speakers.
Secondly, your post referenced Litz wire. In case you aren't aware of what makes it "Litz", each strand of wire is coated with enamel. You CANNOT solder that wire with conventional methods, hence the requirement of a solder pot. I didn't have one on hand when I made my speaker cables, so I went with the rig pictured above. It is a messy adventure (lots of skimming), but my results were excellent. I think I melted about $20-30 worth of WBT solder in the process. Remember, a bad solder joint is worse than a bad crimp, and Litz is "special".
You have received warnings from numerous individuals about being too cavilier with soldering inside those speakers. They are yours to do with as you see fit, but if you don't heed any of these warnings, I suggest you get yourself a big box of Kleenex.
Wazoo--no worries. I'm not going to do anything to jeopardize the speakers, am fully aware of your concerns. Let's say, worstcase scenario the speakers were damaged, despite precautions, then Magnepan could repair them. They don't charge a fortune to do so.
Does that include the spades for the tweeters?
I got talked into this once and I STILL regret doing it.STILL
There is virtually nothing if anything to be gained, and if I started telling you the horror stories and problems entailed in doing this I'd be typing for an hour, for no apparent gain.
If you need to solder for a new XO, cut away the old wires and solder into the blobs, otherwise have plenty of crying towels handy if you try doing this.
You don't say what model you have, so I don't know if what I did wtith the MMGs will answer all your questions.From what I understand, the wires are aluminium, and therefore, soldering is tricky.
I chose not to do any soldering, and just installed real binding posts to the drivers twisting the driver wire around the post, and letting the force of the washer hold them in.
Here are some picts
http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/tweaks/dawnrazor/WBT.jpeg
http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/tweaks/dawnrazor/stands.jpegIf you are very careful, the driver wires just peel off.
I had thought about using a post a simply a clamp to join the driver wire and the speaker wires, but I thought a more permanent solution would be best since I will be bi-amping and probably swapping cables a bit (and the cables are quite heavy which would probably break the driver wires (especially the tweeter). Also, if someon trips on the speaker cable the driver wire won't be harmed this way.
The model is the 20.1.
Here is a link to a 3.6 project, that is probably closer in scope to what you are up against.
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