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In Reply to: Did you review Ed Hsu's article on the Tweaks page? posted by Al Sekela on December 15, 2006 at 16:01:58:
"You will notice that the crossover projects typically use acrylic boxes..." Yes, and if you read most articles which say why, it's because the person did not have the ability to make it out of anything else. Acrylic is readily available and requires nothing but glue and can be made quickly. That's why it gets used. I have never read a review where the person said he made boxes out of various materials and compared them and the acrylic was best. I also doubt it would be."acrylic is less resonant than almost any wood." And this is good why? Magnepans more than any speaker can be said to be musical instruments themselves. You cannot stop the resonance of a musical instrument, nor would you want to. It's that resonance that makes it so wonderful. That's why they make musical instruments out of wood, not metal, and not acrylic either. I think it pays bigger dividends trying to reach a harmony with the resonances rather than trying to eliminate something you have no hope of eliminating. It's like tuning a room, you want to make the resonances work, not eliminate them. Going down that road almost always ends in sterility of sound.
Stereos reach their magic ideal when all the components reach a zen like "one-ness", when the gear, cables, speakers and room act as a whole. The closer they come to this, the greater they become. If we treat one aspect like some cancer than needs to be removed, we'll wind up heading in the wrong direction and we'll never reach Xanadu.
Follow Ups:
...where the person said he made boxes out of various materials and compared them and the acrylic was best. I also doubt it would be."On what basis? Have you done the experiment?
Resonances in audio systems introduce tonal colorations and suppress resolution of details in the source material. Resonances can be manipulated to make the colorations euphonic, but they will still suppress details. Users with poor or defective upstream components may find they prefer this suppression to the ugly truth.
"Magnepans more than any speaker can be said to be musical instruments themselves."
If you want to see speakers that are musical instruments in themselves, look at the Bosendorfer, Lumen White, and Sonus Faber lines.
We have such completely different audio goals that there is not much more to discuss. My goal is to reveal as much of the music in the recording as the format allows, not to decorate recordings with pretty resonances. Magnepans can be tweaked to reveal music, but not by adding resonances.
And you're not supplying one either, yet you're pronouncing the acrylic better. That was my point.I am quite well aware of our "differences" which is exactly why I replied. So that other new people who read this thread but who don't know can see they actually do have a choice in the matter. And where did I advocate adding resonances? I actually said the opposite and that the goal should be to prevent the inter-action of the ones that do exist. Would you tune a Stradivarius by filling it with repti sand? Well, maybe you would..... (and make it out of plexiglass as well)
I will continue to enjoy my "colorations", thank you, and you enjoy your "glare".
you are taking measures to damp them that you are not disclosing. You are advocating them by offering them for sale.Many people like Magnepans because they are free of enclosure box resonance colorations. Some of these resonances are from the size and shape of the box, and some are from the wooden or other materials used. The more refined box speaker designs contain elaborate treatments to minimize the materials- and shape-related colorations. It seems wrong-headed to me to introduce similar resonances to Maggies in an effort to correct other deficiencies (panel rocking and crossover parts selection). This is just trading one set of problems for another.
The musical instrument analogy for speakers is so inapt that it is not even wrong. You can use your maggies for surf boards about as well as for musical instruments.
Your Repti-Sand crossover experience told you that you have serious upstream problems. Correcting them would make the resonance issues from your wooden constructions more obvious.
"Your Repti-Sand crossover experience told you that you have serious upstream problems" - Yes, I need to ditch my Hovland HP-100, Lector player and Pass X-250 for real gear. Thanks for pointing this out, then all my "upstream" problems can get solved. (funny that I nor anyone who's heard my system heard these "upstream" problems though)What should the other 80% of people who also told me repti sand doesn't work for shit do? Maybe all of us should just build an exact copy of your room and buy the gear you use? Funny, but everyone I know who tries your "tricks" say they don't work and ruin their sound. But then again, we were all flawed to begin with, sorry I forgot.
Yes, I recall you saying in the past none of us knows what real music sounds like either, that's we've been "brainwashed" to like "colorations", so we're probably beyond help anyway. We're to stupid to pour sand after all, or so you told us.
Sorry I'm always wrong and you're always right. I suppose a harp isn't an instrument either as it too is just a frame with vibrating strings. You can shoot arrows with it also I suppose since you can't surf on it.
Thanks for your continual enlightenment.
I have to say, that resonance can be a good thing. And as a fancier of stringed instruments, when a high quality mandolin or guitar is properly tuned, the top just "lights up" with sound when it's right on at 440 hz. I've found the same thing in my listening room. I have all my equipment on 2 1/2 " maple racks and blocks of tone wood quality, and it makes a difference, as everyone is vibrating along in synch, amps, tubes, and all. And when that happens, the room "lights up" with an energy you can feel in your chair and in your body. And it's very cool! But I can also understand that out of synch vibration or resonance can cloud the sound.
I'm not taking sides here, just making some observations as a half-baked musician and half-baked audiophile...the truth is where you find it!
Merry Christmas and happy holidays to all : )
Jerry
That was just my point. That:1 - Resonances do exist
2 - They cannot be eliminated entirely, and even if they could it's not the best recourse
3 - Wood based ones are more natural sounding
4 - Yet you need to make even those work in harmony, or at the very least not fight each other.I think you validated what I was saying, or in other words I agree with you. What's more it's that natural timbre or "color" that is so hard to capture with our stereos. Thanks for making your observation, and Merry Christmas to you too!
And any resonance issues can easily be taken care of with an appropriate lining in a wood box.
I actually found my best results came by tackling this problem by addressing how the box sits on the base rather than trying to insulate the box insides. Again, by doing the inside of the box you're attempting to control it which I've found is not possible in practical terms.What worked far better for me was attacking the point where they make contact instead, and with the right product it is easier to make them not notice each other, and once the point of agitation is removed the problem is also.
And yeah, the wood looks a lot cooler too :^ )
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