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In Reply to: What are nice pairs of amps for actively bi-amping Maggie 1.6's? posted by CometCKO on November 7, 2006 at 23:03:03:
Just to further this a bit...I've tried the following combinations (+ notes)
1. Classe CA200 on mid/bass panel with Mac MC275 on treble
* This gave me all the bass + extremely nice treble extension. Unfortunately, the amps were borrowed, and I had to return them. Also the presentation was a bit too smooth and polished. I wanted to shake the musicians and tell them to boogie.2. HK Citation-II tube amp on bass with Kimmel 40wpc EL34 amp on treble
* this is a sweet sounding rig, but runs out of gas on fortissimo passages. The presentation is more forward than the previous, with a serious amount of presence, reach-out-and-touch the musicians. I like it a lot for 80% of my listening, but it won't really stomp when I turn up the volume.3. Mac MC275 on bass with Transcendent Sounds T8 on treble (with zero autoformers)
* The T8 gave this a crystaline purity that was to die for, but it was clearly out of its element at sound levels even slightly elevated. Gave me a taste of OTL magic though! I thought about scoring an AtmaSphere M60 for the treble. I also felt that the bass could have been tighter.4. Citation II on bass with MC275 on treble
* The Citation does a better job of controlling the woofer panels (humongous output trannies, said to be among the best ever produced). The Mac is a nice amp, but not especially lively. I actually prefer the much weaker Kimmel amp on the treble. Overall, though this gave me the most coherent presentation.Note that I listen in a small room, pretty much nearfield listening, and mostly to classical and female vocalist (think Vienna Teng & Alison Kraus).
Upstream components (if it matters) are a VPI scoutmaster with MusicMaker III cart and Audible Illusions M3A (current production 2006).
What combinations have others found to work well?
Thanks!
Franki
Follow Ups:
You seem set on bi-amping. Would you consider just a single amp or a mono-block setup?
From what you have written (small room, close listening spot) I get the impression that you are not looking for a huge amount of power, just the best sound/combination. Though, you would lose some of the 'sound' advantages of bi-amping you could always upgrade the x-over to improve the stock sound. May not be as good as active bi-amping, but with the right amp you may be suprised.I usually don't suggest a paticular brand name, but since I'm in the process of upgrading my Rogue Audio Magnum M-120's to M-150's and also own a pair of 1.6's, I figure I'll drop their name in. (despite my post about name dropping)
The upgrade from 120's to 150's is a bit spendy (though I'm hoping it'll be worth every penny!), but my point is I chose a spendy upgrade instead of purchacing a different brand amp.Audition!!! You'll be glad that you did!
Jon
To your points, yes, I'm pretty committedd to active bi-amping at this point. I plan to build an external crossover (high-level) so I can use just one pair of monoblocks. But my experience so far suggests that losing the stock Maggie crossover components was a huge step forward. Low power tube amps like some I've tried have a lot better success controlling the speaker elements when wired directly to them, and not dissipating any energy through a crossover network.I'm trying to audition as much as possible, but I have no local dealer support, so I'm trying to learn from others' experience too. Actually the Rogues are on my short list. But of course, I need two stereo amps (or 4 monoblocks) these days, so I'm not looking at your 150's
I know there are a number of people who have happily bi-amped, and I think there are probably a bunch of different amps that will be more than wonderful, but so far I haven't found the perfect mate.
"But of course, I need two stereo amps (or 4 monoblocks) these days, so I'm not looking at your 150's"Take a good look/listen to their 90 amps....1/2 the price of the 150's. For more info before you audition check out rogueadio.com They list the prices and all the details you'd like to know, but I suggest listening to any amp before you buy. What is right for me may not be right for you, ya know ;-)
Jon
But then I'd have to live for a year on peanut butter. I'll have to see if i can find some of the 90's to listen to. Never heard of them before. Thanks for the tip.
Just remember; all of the listening qualities you describe can be changes with subtle equalization. the frequency fariations are due primarily to the varying output impedances of the Power amps you describe. I know it would be more interesting to prescribe the changes to magical interactions between the speakers - but it is as simple as above.
Not sure I totally buy into this theory, but it fits nicely into a general class of complexity and chaos mathematics that appeals to me.Trial and error seems like a dumb way to arrive at sonic nirvana (which is probably why I'm stuck in this mode...) it would be nice to have a general field theory of speaker/amp interactions that would help in the process!
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