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4.158.0.59
GreetingsAs the high end audio magazines drive the trends of the audio industry, and turn-about is fair play, it's only fair to review a live symphony orchestra by the same standards developed by these magazines. In this spirit ( ; ) my wife and I attended the March 25 2007 3 PM performance of the CSO. Here is my review.
Transducer type: Variable, with 32 drivers per side.
Crossover: Acoustic only.
Interconnects: Conductor (Charles Dutiot) with union contract.
Playback format tested; Paper score only (!).
Music selections used: Ravel: Le Tambeau de Couperin; Prokofiev Piano Concerto in G Minor, Op 16; Rimsky-Korsakov Sheherazade Op. 35.
Price: If you have to ask...Those considering purchasing a symphony orchestra as a reality test of their high end speaker system might well consider the CSO. There are a number of caveats to be considered though. Firstly, no measurements are provided, and the manufacturer of said system vigorously resists these measuremnts! I could have brought a pocket digital storage scope to the audition, but this was not allowed! So what are they afraid of? It's not like any of the drivers are even remotely capable of making a square wave. Well, read on... The various drivers in this system are not even time alligned^TM! That's right, the very yardstick some would hold up as the most basic requirement of a multi-way reproduction system is absent form the very start! This problem could be easily addressed by time allingning^TM the drivers by means of seating them in a scaffold similar to the way the Hollywood Squares TV show are seated. But no, they just place the drivers in a manner dictated by tradition! Leaving this aside, no attempt is made to damp euphonic colorations of the various instruments! This author has made modest proposals in this direction (i.e.: make the string section out of MDF, or at least fill them with sand) to no avail. Various other modifications to the other drivers will seem obvious: dip the brass drivers in tar and stuff them with Hollo-Fill^TM; wrap the reed section in sheet lead; use sheet lead coated with tar in the percussion...these obvious solutions to a more neutral sound go obliviously unheeded. Forget puting all the drivers on heavy brass spikes, or using tube traps. Ah well, you get what you pay for, and the result is a very colored presentation with vague imaging. Any good high end playback system can present a better soundstage with better localization of idividual instruments by comparison, and to paraphrase HP "...if the system can't do the soundstage...". I'll finish the thought: what good is it? Now to the final problem: the primitive technology of this system allows, by it's very nature, for "interpretation" by the conductor! This goes against one of the basic tenets of high end audio reproduction: that the audio transducer should merely reproduce the music, it should add nothing, it should take nothing away. This goes completely out the window! What if we were to allow typists to "interpret" the text of what they were typing? How would any business get transacted? How would laws get written? How could anyone write a novel or a news article? But this is accepted for business-as-usual in this primitive type of system. Given all these considerations, I cannot recommend this system due to it's high degree of euphonic colorations and fair-to-poor degree of sound stage imaging. As a side note from the program notes, that N. Rimsky-Korsakov was a damn fine looking man!
Follow Ups:
Thanks Paul for your wonderful review.Although one can understand your frustration at such a large and expensive system that seems to ignore all good audio engineering practice, you have to realize that systems like this evolved over many, many years. You may be surprised to know that they have roots in pre industrial Europe!
Though certainly not up to today's demanding standards, these old "Analog Orchestral Systems" still have many fans. Fans who find that the empirical research and evolution of of these systems has lent them a certain "Musicality", "Rhythm" or "Life" if you will. Yes, they suffer from a shocking lack of time alignment, damping, power bandwidth. The wow and flutter is awful, background noise often very distracting - but - they do have a wonderful "live" feel to them, despite all the faults.
Many of us old timers who grow up in an age before digital sources, MP3s, optical discs, computer design and other such modern marvels, have a real soft spot in our hearts for these creaky, unwieldy, ancient systems. As limited and poorly designed as they may be by today's standards, they still have so much charm. Don't you think?
Are fans of the grand old "Analog Orchestral Systems" simply living in a rose tinted halcyon past? Are we deceiving ourselves? Perhaps. But the old often has qualities not found in the new. Good qualities. So these systems will live on in our hearts and pocket books, cost and science be damned!
P.Thank you for your interest in the CSO system review, and flip-side comments. As to the analogue orchestra having evolved over many years, some would argue that it should continue evolving to standards set by high-end audio. I will have to look into your assertion that the modern orchestra has roots in pre-industrial Europe. As far as I know, pre-industrial Europe looked like Mel Gibson's camp in the movie Braveheart. Why were the bagpipes left out of the modern orchestra? Yes the analogue orchestra is charming and all, but there is such a thing as too much of a good thing. I detected a lack of scientific detachment at the performance I attended, most people seemed to be there solely for a good time, which is distracting. At any rate, when the MDF String Quartet premiers in a specially constructed anechoic chamber auditorium, audiophiles will finally have a choice between the old and where the high-end is taking us .
there might be a mesage in there like watch out for debussey he likes flowers
not here
Like the New York Mills Philharmonic with Heile Gedankesein, playing the first inning of Beethoven's 5th, or better yet, Eine Kleine Nichtmusik by PDQB.
I think that you forgot to mention that the trade in value is non existent and that you have to buy the complete system again every time you go to listen.Not much in the way of warranty either if you don't like the performance.
I would mention that the Philadelphia product has much the same problems that you mention except that if you get a subscription in the cheap seats, you can ask the price (about $10 per seat).
ray
- http://www.philorch.org/styles/poa02e/www/pdfs/Philadelphia Orchestra 0708 Season.pdf (Open in New Window)
RayI'm afraid I have to disagree with you concerning the trade-in value of the various drivers in the CSO. A good corporate raider could part them out on e-bay in no time. However, I agree with you 100% concerning the lack of a warranty. There is also an appalling lack of basic features like a pause control. While the conductor does have this ability, what is the point in having this feature if the owner can't access it? I have'nt had the opportunity to audition the Philadelphia Orchestra, as they have refused to send a review example, and there is no dealer near me. All of these orchestras ignore high end audio at their peril!
This is getting serious. No fast forward either. At least some of the older composers were forward thinkers and obviously thought about this issue because they built the the repeat mechanism into the music itself.And of course some of the more modern composers took care of the randomizing issue.
Paul, I have also noticed this tendency toward vague imaging and colored sound with orchestral playback, as well as a variety of low level wheezing, squeaking and shuffling noises. At the hourly rate of such an ensemble, one would hope for better performance than this.Worse yet, the overall presentation often has a sonic signature much closer to that of vintage field coil theatre sound systems than that of modern, classy hind end audio salon gear. It is a shame that orchestral sound has fallen so far behind the times.
Hi SteveYes, it's a tragedy that the modern orchestra has been allowed to expand to some 50 ft in width, which is totally unrealistic compared to a good high end stereo system. A lot of this is due to the stubborn refusal to shorten the bows of the strings section to 10 in. maximum. Also, there's no reason that some players can't sit in each other's laps either.
Maybe you need a bookshelf system, like a chamber quartet. Would this have a higher or lower WAF?????
If that doesn't work, maybe get Jo Ma Ma to play solo cello. I shouldn't make fun, got to see Yo Yo Ma play Bach very up close and personal, fantastic evening.
Rich
FAB /h1> - how about oblate spheroid waveguide vs "horn"?
Mr. IresonAs should be painfully obvious, the symphony orchestra (as it were) has stubbornly resisted any improvements which could be derived from high-end audio technology. Try talking to them about High Order Modes, and all they reply about is musical modality: Myxlodian, Lydian, Phrygian etc.. Not a clue.
Most excellent!!!
Thanks Paul
Paul, I know you couldn't do any measurements, but how do you think the lack of accurate directivity control effects the presentation? I'm sure the reverberant field would make for serious variations in the overall tone and coloration as one moved around.Great review. Are you considering a career move?
EsoDirectivity control? Don't make me laugh! The high frequency response from the various transducers is permitted to narrow as the frequency range is increased! How accurate is that? How can the sound integrate with the low frequencies of the bass instruments? How do you know that the sound of the instrument is coming from that actual instrument, or just a hidden Wilson Watt/Puppy? We got there about 10 min. to 3, and some of the players in the orchestra could have been manequins. And as for control of the reverberant field, don't make me laugh! They would'nt even let me move around at all! Not to mentioned the subjectivists in the audience who "shushed" objectivists. As for a career move, don't make me laugh! When The Absolute Stereo takes off, I'm blowing this pop stand, and I'll start drinking the Vodka too (as long as they advertise and send a case)! Just watch the ( ) by my name for latest status!
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