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My Edgars are about 10 ft. apart. I notice that the image of mostly vocals-Analog and digital is in between the center and the left from where I'm sitting. I'm not sure on how to get it dead on center--or should it be dead on center?? I have move them all over the place and just can't get it. The dynamics and depth are there--Huge sound that fills the room very nice. But the imaging is driving me nuts. I have masking tapes all over the floor to help me remember where I had it before--Just can't get it to center.Thoughts/Suggestions
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In our old apartment my system was set up in a living room that had a 7' opening in the center of one side. The stereo image always pulled off center. The only solution was a balance control, and the pre-amp that I upgraded to did not have one.My 2¢
Refrig lite at 2am feedings.
A couple things to check;first switch the actual speakers and see if it mores to the right, if so it's the speakers, one is more (or less)efficient than the other. If it's still to the left it's not the speakers!
second, if you use a tube amp- switch power tubes between chanels and clean the connections everywhere. If it reverses you may have a sub-par tube. Do the same for pre amp tubes, sometimes just jostling a tube will put everything right. If you turn the amp on and off and it starts out centered and drifts as it warms up then possible bad cap somewhere in the system.
I had similar imaging although slightly. Along with the off center I had definitely more db on the side it pulls towards. The difference happens in my slouching position vs my standing position. Standing is pretty much centered while in my fav position it (the voice) pulls left i.e 11 to 11.30 on the clock.
It appears my "L" shaped setting of my furniture (WAF) does not help.the 2 sides of my room are not the same due to cabinets and record shelves. They are a given. Swapping my Edgars Titans left to right ( I did not consider : ) Hey guys I dont even jog or walk : )
Success : Recently I remeasured and then thought to pull the left speaker backwards(away from me)by approx. 4 inches and adjusted my cartridge vertical (as in looking at it head on and used a 1:2:3 (machinist block) making sure my suspension platter was level with counterbalance with 2 other 1:2:3 forming isoceles triangle on my platter. Then using the verticle 1 inch edge of the one block to sight the cartridge body. It was very slightly off. Next was the pressure on the grove wall Its easy with my ET2 arm as all I had to do was adjust the feet: bounce the arm and see if it settles bias front or back. I now have center in my slouching and stand up position. These jouney was 8 months off and on. Occassionally I get a minor drift - I think it can be the musician picked up by an adjacent mike when in the course of playing faces his partners mike more than his own.
So inspite of an assymetric room ( due to WAF) I persisted and I eventually lucked out. I know it can be frustrating but I did alot of tweaking both mechanical( toe in or out of speakers) electronic ( tubes caps etc) related.
Dont feel alone and good luck....
Most of the suggestions listed are very good. If you don't have a mono switch, buy a "Y" interconnect and connect it to one source channel. Connect the other ends of the "Y" to the L and R inputs of your amp. This will give you a mono system. The image should be very central.The Titans have excellent resolution, but the high resolution also magnifies imaging anomolies.
Hi WannabeI have just been through this and found a useful starting point was switching the sides at each stage of the chain i.e. change speaker connection then power amp connection then preamp then phono etc
In my case it turns out it was my phono setup - my tonearm was putting more pressure to one side as I had set it up.
The reason I mention this is because i spent ages messing with speaker position and such thinking the problem lay there.
Edgarhorns are usually imaging champs, but as with any system careful setup makes a big difference. I have found that "eyeballing it" in regard to speaker and listening chair placement can result in several inches of error. To correct this, attach a string to the center of your listening chair and pull it taut to check that the distance to each driver right and left is as close as possible; within 1/8" is great. Getting the toe in set the same for both sides is also important, as is symmetry to the side walls and acoustical treatment of those surfaces.If this alignment doesn't snap the system into focus then there may be an issue of driver connection polarity, driver matching or something in the electronics.
If and only if the problem are on the drivers as what you said is one of the possibilities--How do I address this problem? Does this have to be done by a pro?? Any suggestion on how to isolate/pinpoint (trouble shoot) what exactly is causing it.
Edgarhorns normally image very well. I presume you've gone though a troubleshooting sequence and narrowed it down to the speakers.Have you tried swapping speakers left-to-right and seeing if the imbalance follows the speakers, or stays on the lefthand side?
If the left and right speaker are both playing at the same volume level, and are both the same distance and angle from the center of the sweetspot, and there's nothing miswired like phase reversed on the tweeter, then I think it's either a room reflection or your ears.
There are times when it has been my ears. Try this: Rub thumb and fingers together near one ear, and then near the other. Same loudness and pitch? If not, you may have a wax problem in one ear.
Assuming your ears check out, look around your room for either a flat surface or sharp edge (like edge of a cabinet) somewhere on the left side of the room. Either one can cause a reflection or diffraction that can pull the image over. I once accidentlly found such a problem in my room when I lazily tossed a towel over the edge of a bookcase and my center image went back to center.
Best of luck to you,
Because of the enviorment I work at my ears get check periodically. The following are the things that I have done: I swap the drivers from left to right and back. I have swap the cables and RCA wires on the pre and the amp. I have moved the speakers in different location. All these did not make any difference. The wiring issue on the tweeter--How do I check that?? No idea what to look for. I would assume it's all done correctly because Bruce and his crew put everything together.
What happens when you play something in mono? Mono albums? Mono button on pre? If the image snaps center I'd think it was a problem with your electronics (as opposed to speakers). Or maybe a room effect?
using them to trouble shoot the problem. As soon as I have more time I will start all over again from the very beggining and trouble shoot this inch by inch. I hope to God I get some answers, becasue this is really driving me crazy.
First of all, are the speakers situated equally away the side wall? and are both speakers has the same distance from the center of the speaker to where you sit(you should be sitting app. 5' between the speakers and app. 10' to either speaker)?Second, are you doing this test with a CD player or turntable? CD won't lie, image(and most vocal) should be dead center. Turntable on the other hand could shift the image to either side depending on the adjustment of your turntable, tonearm and cartridge.
Hope this helps,
the same results. There is no wall on the side of the left speaker. I'm not sure if that is the cause of the problem--I guess it's possible. The imaging shifting more on one side is very prominent that I personally think it's electronic, wiring or something on the hardware-Not the room accoustics.
If you have no wall on one side I'm betting that is at least a large part of the problem. It sounds like my listening room is similar to yours. What I've done to balance things out is to take an approach to make it seem like there is also no wall on the right side as well. I've applied some effective absorption panels along the first reflection point, and extended a little further for good measure. I suspect you'll have the same problem, to varying degrees, regardless of speakers in your room configuration if you don't address that one wall. Or, you could pull the left speaker closer to your listening position until things start to sound balanced.
It is the room I used to have an open hallway with same effect, the balance knob used to work untill I went passive, so no balance, then I redid the whole room and added a wall in that spot, guess what: problem gone....
Giving more toe in should work, I remember I even had one speaker closer to me than the other and that worked fine also.
to do list. Here's a link to a pic. The left side is open--Further down moving forward I have my vinyl colletion--creating a wall. That BTW is the very first pic.
http://gallery.audioasylum.com/cgi/view.mpl?UserImages=28352
I'd get hits when I googled Edgarhorns.These non-rectangular rooms have many extra issues to deal with but they can work very well. I'll offer my experience and hope that it gives you some ideas. From the looks of it we have very similar floor plans for the front end of our listening rooms. The back wall in your room is very different and I'm going to guess that it is adding to your woes.
The optimum speaker placement for me has always been 1/3 into the room from the wall behind the speakers. I try to keep the drivers no closer than 2' from the side walls. This puts the left speaker almost exactly in line with the corner that opens into the other room on the left side. I noticed your placement has the speakers even further into the room. I know this may not help you much since you have quite a bit more gear to fit in than I do.
I really believe that you would benefit from some absorption treatment on the right wall. The back wall is going to be more of a challenge. If you look at where the opening is going past your record shelves you'll realize that it also on the left side. So you loose even more reflections from that side. I don't know why this causes the imbalance to be on the left side, but perhaps some of the guys over in the Rives forum can explain that one. You may have better results if you move the record shelves and just let the back of the room open all the way across. You'll still have that one corner in the back but some type of fabric draped on the door should help with that.
I use Bruce's round horns. I have the same issue, in mirror of your problem - open doorway to the dining room on the RIGHT side.I simply use the balance control; room treatments are a non-starter in the living room. I purposely ordered dual mono controls for my pre-amp project.
Have you try switching the spk output? I've used the Sira with Wavelength x-1 with my Edgahorn Titan II and don't have sound stage balance problem. I sold the Sira and X-1 and got a Cavilar Plus from Syrus and in the process saved me some bucks and it sounds better.
and played around the pre's and amps left and right. No luck there. It is my second set of drivers from Bruce. The first set had some real bad sonic problems.
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My AI Modulus 3 doesnt either. Seperate volume controls for each channel make my life easy. I hope you get some answers here. The imbalance would drive me to distraction...Best of Luck!!!!
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