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In Reply to: Behringer DCX2496 Re: subwoofer crossover posted by Dr Deville on January 23, 2007 at 22:58:09:
SET with el cheapo Behringer, are you serious? This is not an audiophile approved route! See my system:Sources: Squeezebox 2 (slimdevices.com), M-audio Revolution7.1 soundcard if needed
Digital converter/conditioner: Behringer SRC 2496, upsamples to 48 or 96 /24 bits as used by the DCX
Digital crossover Behringer DCX in 3 x 2 configuration, tweaked with Tent labs clock, BG and oscon caps in power and digital sections, direct analogue outputs à la Scott Endler (or Thierry Martin) and 6 gang Alps potentiometer
Three stereo amplifiers, each have an input potentiometer, feeding directly the drivers of the loudspeakers, a 70 W PP tube amplifier and two SET amplifiers 300B and 2A3 tubes.
Speakers are good old Klipsch Cornwall cabinet only, with a Beyma Cp-21 tweeter, Altec 511/806 horns and Altec 414A woofers.
The most important feature is the DRC, using Inguz plug-ins for Slimserver, By far the most effective tweak! This is a must for the Klipsch squawker and Beyma tweeter which are not linear at all. Apart that DRC take care of the alignment, phase distortion and room reflections.
Planned:
1. a subwoofer to take care of the 25 to 70 Hz but with more humph and power , crossover mad with another DCX , subs built in a closet ( 1550 l, heavily filled with clothes ;-)), drivers : the K34K from the Cornwalls powered with a Hafler p4000 500W amplifier.
2. new output card for the DCX from Selectronic.Bottom line: DCX is a very capable and flexible tool with decent stock sound becoming much better when tweaked. The real problem is the necessity to keep the signal hot to the DCX and attenuate it after. 6 channel volume controls are rare, mine is basic (6 gang potentiometer)
A lot of information on the web and the best site are:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15943&perpage=10&highlight=&pagenumber=41 , 116 pages !!!
http://www.dcx2496.fr/ just translated from French
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DCX2496/ free but must subscribe.Best output drop in output card, supply, clock and 6 channels volume control:
http://www.selectronic.fr/international.aspSearch the web, study all that and go for it, in the worst case you can resell it with a very slight loss.
Chris
Follow Ups:
Thanks for the fascinating info, Chris. You sound like a similarly eclectic geek. I'll follow up on your leads.Ever thought of feeding a digital signal directly from a pc/cd into your Behringer, and skipping some stages of conversion?
I'm super curious to hear your opinions of the Behringer's sound, in the context of a SET/audiophile system. What can you tell me?
Thanks again,
George
Hi George,
You ask about direct digital feed from the PC. The squeezebox does exactly that : from hard drive to the SB through ethernet (wire or wireless) , then digital out to the Behringers. All the processing : DRC, crossover and EQ is done in the digital domain. The D/A conversion is done in the DCX.
DCX and SET: no problem DCX uses very good AKM DACs (4393) and I tweaked it a lot. I'm waiting for the new I/O French card.
I honestly think tha the dCX is very transparent and if it harm the sound it does it to a much less extend than other alternatives (passive or analogue). This combined with a NOT APPROVED audiophile price makes it unavoidable. A lot of people use it.
There are some alternatives, more friendly and sophisticated like the TACT and the DEQX but the starting cost is arround 5k$!
Chris
Hey Chris,Greetings, fellow heretic! Yes, I have a tendency to want to do things differently, which is one reason I got out of flying, and do not work with radioactive materials. In audio, if I keep one hand in my pocket, the consequences of my misadventures are mostly limited to financial and emotional pain. Mostly. (g)
Thanks for all the information, it is good grist for the mill. Perhaps if I go the Behringer route I can milk you for the most worthwhile tweaks. I'm guessing that the input needs to be kept hot in order to use all the ADC's bits, and there isn't sufficient output level control to drop it back down again? I remember reading in a manufacturer's comment on a review (Enjoy The Music, perhaps), that the grain the reviewer heard in bypass mode was due to this--not having enough input level to fully use the ADC.
"The most important feature is the DRC, using Inguz plug-ins for Slimserver, By far the most effective tweak! "
I don't know nothin' 'bout birthin' no babies! Uhm, could you explain this to me. (I think I understood "Slimserver" ;^) )
That French DCX2496 tweak site looks very interesting. Clearly a market has grown up around the product.
My current bogey is an open baffle system, biamped, fullrange and 300B SET on top, SS and dual OB 15" woofers on bottom. I'm hoping this will give me both air and slam. Time will indeed tell.
Thanks again for your enthusiasm, info, and encouragement. Good luck!
Lets go:
Slimserver is the Slimdevices software player used to send the muisc files to the Squeezebox (over the network)
Inguz plug-in is a software convolver/equalizer written for slimserver
http://inguzaudio.com/RoomCorrection/
DRC stands for digital room correction which is a software used to create correction filters dialing with amplitude, phase and time alignment correction of the system and the room. No so easy to implement but for shure the future of the sound reproduction. Even the new Microsoft Vista will incorporate some DRC elements !!!
Of course at the begining you have to take the PC musical server route.
Chris
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