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Most classical labels producing SACDs have given short shrift to chamber works. I note from visiting the Telarc website that the label will soon be issuing Tchaikovsky's three string quartets and sextet (Ying Quartet) on CD, but not on SACD. What will it take to get the leading classical SACD labels to issue more chamber works? Is the market for chamber works so small in comparison to orchestral works that the labels can't turn a profit on chamber SACDs?
Follow Ups:
Why oh why are they not releasing this on SACD???? There's no indication on their web site that this will be released on that format. I would definitely buy it on SACD but not on CD (I have other rbcd performances of these works and don't feel a need to duplicate on rbcd). So far, Michael Bishop has refrained from commenting on this. I for one would like to hear from him.
Mark
nt
I hear you! I love good chamber music and have found SACD splendor in Vivaldi’s Late Violin Concertos by Giuliano Carmignola and the Venice Baroque Orchestra. I simply can’t believe there isn’t an audience for material like that – it is my favorite classical SACD. I prefer it to full orchestral works, and it is recreated more realistically in my living room.
Thank you. That's the kind of recommendation I need. Considered it ordered. I note on SA-CD.net it is listed as a single layer disc. I assume this means no CD layer? Can you confirm this?Also, when does chamber music cease to be chamber music? My perception of chamber music has been classical music played by, say under 8 muscians (arbritary number on my part), who, if need be, but not neccesarily, could all fit comfortably is a small room or a large livingroom with space for listeners, like a string quartet, trio, or solo or duet piano. These Vivaldi Late Violin Concertos seem to be played by a small orchestra with 20 or more muscians. Is this chamber music, per se? If so I may have other recommendations for this thread.
Robert C. Lang
It is *not* a hybrid. It can be played as either stereo and multi-channel (though I've only heard it in stereo mode).
but it isn't a full-blown orchestra. The keyboard is a harpsichord, and all of the instruments have strings (as one would expect from chamber music) - they are also genuinely baroque (even the bows). The miracle (in light of that fact) is the conveyance of emotion - beautifully expressive (at least to me). This music "fits" nicely in my living room. I think Giuliano is a brilliant soloist. These works are unmistakably Vivaldi. This SACD is well recorded and engineered – one of the best in my collection of SACDs.Does this work qualify as chamber music? I don’t really know, but I sure would like more SACDs like it! I welcome any recommendations you may have.
"Concertos for Double Bass" on Opus 3. These concertos, which include works of Bottesini are for Double Bass and string orchestra (only) and are *wonderfully* performed and recorded.Also, I have really become enamored with the Polskie Radio Mozart K. 242, 365, 449. These are concertos for 3, 2, and 1 pianos respectively accompanied by small orchestra (may be just strings, I don't recall).
I also include a definitive chamber work, the Fry Street Quartet's Hayden String Quartets op 9 and op 77. See link to my comments below.
Robert C. Lang
The enjoyment of music is a highly subjective experience, but I have made numerous wonderful purchases based on such advice as yours. I think I'll start with the last one you mentioned, although double bass and string orchestra sounds interesting. What the heck, I'll order both (if not all three)!Thanks again,
Kevin
Perhaps Telarc simply isn't interested in chamber music as a musical or technical format. The Telarc sound is geared more toward the spectacular and bombastic than the intimate and accurate.Praga and Pentatone chamber music is beautifully performed and recorded, and presents instruments more realistically than any other format.
Although lately, I have been listening more carefully to some Hyperion RBCD chamber stuff, and those are also (gasp!) very realistic in spatial perspective and timbre.
"I have been listening more carefully to some Hyperion RBCD chamber stuff, and those are also (gasp!) very realistic in spatial perspective and timbre."I have some Beetoven string quartets on Hyperion's mid priced label "helios" performed by New Budapest Quartet, RCBD, both the performance and particularly the captured sound is simply amazing, a demonstration quality recording, the captured string tone is the best I have heard. The Op. 95 is my favorite. I suppose the reason for offering them on the mid priced label is because these things do not sell well.
nt
"I note from visiting the Telarc website that the label will soon be issuing Tchaikovsky's three string quartets and sextet (Ying Quartet) on CD, but not on SACD."I have my hopes on PentaTone, counting on Julia Fischer to record Tchaikovsy Trio, that work is my personal favorite, how about it Julia?
From what I have read a Chamber music recording is lucky to sell 3,000 copies in any format whereas many Classical orchestral discs sell 50,000 or more. On the up side it usually costs less to record chamber music unless one of the really big name artists are performing.There are some chamber SACDs from the smaller companies but until SACD makes a bigger dent in the marketplace Chamber music could be a big loosing proposition.
Sort of a niche in a niche in a niche.
"Music is love"
Teresa
Ah, but my favorite niche.
in your own living room or music room.But regardless of the above, to me the essential heart and soul of classical music.
Harry
No matter how good the recording, no matter how wonderful the performance, no matter what format or how expensive and accurate your system, you will never come more than close to reproducing the sound of a symphony orchestra in your listening room. There is no way you can capture the sound of 60 or 80 musicians playing in a multi-thousand cubic foot space and shrink it down to fit inside your living room, playing out of two or five or twenty-five speakers.However, it is comparatively easy to put a chamber ensemble smack dab in between a pair of stereo speakers with such eerie presence and depth that you can close your eyes and swear they're there. I have fooled myself many times with a good recording of a string quartet or piano trio, but I have never fallen for the ultimate lie when listening to a recorded orchestra. I tell myself: "My, this sounds similar to what I heard the other night in Overture Hall." But then, sometimes, I tell myself: "Holy shit, where did that cello and piano come from?"
...transport the home listener to the recording space, not to bring the musicians into your home. In that sense, it is clearly possible to create a suitable experience of hearing both orchestras and chamber groups realistically at home. Isn't this the very reason why multichannel audio is moving forward? Multichannel done well will create the recording space more effectively than simple two-channel, bringing the listener there. I use a Hafler ambience arrangement to get this type of experience in my home. On the best recordings, I experience a credible illusion of being at the concert hall/recording space, whether it is an orchestra going full bore on Mahler or a Bach cello suite.If you are expecting the musicians to be in your home you will be sadly disappointed because it is simply not a realistic expectation.
Mark
I have had classical musicians in my living room. They are used to playing in concert halls. Even small halls are vastly bigger than my rather big living room. They were simply too loud. They preferred to play at near the volume they usually play, and their instruments are designed to fill a concert hall. They simply overwhelmed my room. Once I heard a very good professional opera singer sing some arias in the living room. The volume was amazing. I think I would have liked it better if I went several rooms away. I agree with you. My goal with my systems has been been to transport myself to the concert hall, and MCH sound can be an enormous asset for this. All this said, maybe this discussion is really about how words are being used, and there is no real disagreement.
HowdyI've got to wonder how much of this depends on how your system is set up. I like using absorption with no explicit diffusion for my system. The room is just about as dead as I can get it without giving that "full ear" feeling you get in an anechoic chamber. This way I essentially hear everything from the speakers on the first pass a get as little room interaction as possible. IMO this gives me a fighting chance of experiencing the venue where the music was recorded and with the better surround recordings I sure don't feel like I'm listening in my own room.
For decades I have sought to recreate the feeling I am at the venue where the music was recorded. Since I listen primarily to classical music, this is a real challenge. About 30 years ago I was thinking somewhat along the lines you describe. I had speakers with relatively low dispersion and a fairly dead room, so that the ambiance information on the recording could come straight to me without modification by the room reflections. However, 2-ch stereo just couldn't do it. I became very interested in time-delay units and bought an Advent 5000. This added a lot of the concert hall experience, but it wasn't right; it added ambiance to ambiance.I think the ideal system would be a fairly dead room, low-dispersion front speakers, side speakers, and rear speakers with recordings properly encoded to feed the right information to the right speakers. Thus the room would drop out of the equation, and all ambiance information would be carefully created and controlled. We're not there yet, but a well set-up MCH SACD system goes a long way in this direction.
HowdyEven tho for two channel I have to admit that vinyl can beat SACD, for MC in my experience it's just not a fair contest. SACD MC often transports me to other places... even contrived ones :)
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