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In Reply to: Telarc's secret was learned from Robert Fine and Wilma Cozart-Fine: posted by Teresa on March 24, 2007 at 17:59:57:
A couple of comment on your comments, and thanks for commenting on my comments.
I got into hi fi just as 78’s were losing market to the LP’s, that makes me an old fart, that said lets take one record CO. lets start with RCA, in the 50’s they were recording Toscanini with NBC orchestra in that dreaded studio 8H, they essentially produced telephone booth ambience, the worst possible sound that was ever recorded my mankind, but strangely that same RCA a few years later recorded Reiner and Munch and produced some of the finest orchestral sound ever recorded.
Back to Telarc, my main point with the Telarc sound is that regardless of what they are recording the technique remains the same, that’s where I see the problem, I have tons of Telarc CD’s, I love their orchestral sound when it comes to Aaron Copeland or Stravinsky, but here in front of me there is a recording of Bruckner Sym no.6 with Cincinnati Sym Orch. Cobos conducting, to me the sound of this recording is painfully dry and totally inappropriate for this particular music.
Anton Bruckner spent most of his life in cathedrals, his music is written for performance in cathedral type spaces with vast interiors and the appropriate reverberation. Bruckner has many “abrupt” pauses in his music which are intended to let the reverberation die before the next episode begins.
Now, listen to me, the recording producer need to know a thing or two before recording this particular composer, with this particular Bruckner 6th Telarc proves that they know or care nothing about these all important issues.
Follow Ups:
Cincinnati Music Hall had gone through a major remodeling/refinishing just prior to the Lobos-Cobos Bruckner session. In addition, the Maestro had commissioned a new shell structure, risers, and acoustic materials, all to the detriment of the sound of Music Hall, IMO. There was little we could do to make Music Hall sound like a cathedral or even close to it. The hall had become very unforgiving, but that's what we had to work with. The Maestro wanted a very direct, immediate sound. Sometimes you just have to roll with the punches... In the sessions and years since, with work, we've made the hall sound much better than what we had at that particular point.My recording technique is NEVER the same from one session to the next. There are far too many variables in repertoire, acoustics, orchestra instrumentation & layout, temperature & weather conditions, etc. to think that "one size fits all." It never does. There are similarities, but lots of changes and adjustments at each and every session. Additionally, I don't do anything the same now that I was doing just a year ago. Recording music is an evolutionary process, and just like the musicians, we're always making changes along the way.
I'm sure you have no idea of the amount of session preparation before we're anywhere near the recording session. It would be impossible to effectively produce a full-blown orchestra session (costing more than $300/minute) without extensive planning and preparation for the piece at hand.
Best Regards,Michael Bishop
Recording Engineer
who had enough trouble with xenophobic and linguistically-impaired Cincinnatians without his recording engineer getting his name wrong!!As to Music Hall and the Lopez-Cobos experiments, as a then-Subscriber,I can only emphatically disagree with your verdict. The Hall's sound was transformed from an undifferentiated wash of Royal Albert Hall-type reverberence to a detailed but definitely not dry acoustic. The quality of the upper strings was seemingly transformed. And in Bruckner--though I am far from sure that the recordings of the Sixth and Seventh did not predate the 'makeover'--the changes permitted the hearing of the all-important harmonic and contrapuntal inner, subordinate voices, especially in the Brass.
The Lopez-Cobos Bruckner #6-9, as I have argued before, are the finest Bruckner recordings and performances to have been made OUTSIDE the Austro-German axis of Vienna, Munich, Berlin, Hamburg, Amsterdam. I have heard Wand--and other divinities--'live' in Bruckner #8, for example, and Lopez-Cobos and his by-then fabulous cloning of Karajan's BPO were every bit as impressive, especially in 1994. Mr. Bishop--take pride in these wonders, ignore the (IMHO)ignorant, and PUT THESE JEWELS OF THE TELARC CATALOG ON TO SACD--PRESTISSIMO!!
A final aside. If anyone like myself has pondered the reason for the excellence of the Telarc philosophy, Bishop's post provides real insight. Note that it was the Maestro who determined the general character of the recording--apparently Woods-Renner have never hankered after the supreme powers of a Legge, a Culshaw. The musicians rule apparently and the proof of the pudding has long been in the tastiest of 'eating'.
Generally speaking with the construction of the Lincoln Center we had a resurgence of interest in the performing arts centers, nearly every major city had to have a brand new performing center, my hometown Houston built the Jones Hall, but just like the Lincoln Center all were modern & contemporary architectural masterpieces with totally unacceptable acoustics and all went through endless and costly remodeling to fix the problem, very few got their money’s worth.
That remodeling craze finally destroyed one of the finest, the Orchestra Hall Chicago where many Reiner recordings were made, gone with the wind.
I just hope that Boston Symphony Hall with its incredible acoustics remains intact.
As for Cobos insisting on a very direct & immediate sound, well he got it, but I still insist that that sound is not appropriate for Bruckner’s music and obviously there was very little that you could do to change his mind. After listening to his performance I am convinced that he is not a Bruckner specialist in G. Wand tradition.
When conductors insist on a certain sound, the results can be at times less than satisfactory, Leonard Bernstein in his later years insisted on an audio perspective that he was only able to hear from the podium, his later DG recordings reflect that approach, compare those to his earlier Columbia recordings and you will realize what went wrong. I suppose when conductors impose their will on recording engineers we all lose.
And yes I am aware of the preparation that goes ahead of a recording session, everything to you mentioned plus the additional costs imposed by the unions.
way you'll have ALL the wonderful recordings you could ever want
and NOT played by those greedy Union Musicians who think their work is worth something, and who don't live in Eastern Europe, but in th USA where it cost $ just keep a roof, car and self together. Personaly I'd be happy living in the street, so long as you get your cds. Oh I forgot to add, Go **** yourself.
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