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I have been trying to collect SACD recordings of some of the classical basic repertoire, and I noticed two recent BIS recordings by the Minnesota Orchestra, one of the 4th and 5th symphonies and one of the 3rd and 8th. They seem to have received good reviews, although the performances may not be as good as some of the older "classic" recordings (pun intended).Has anyone heard them, and if so, what's your opinion? - I already have recordings of some great performances of these works, which I don't expect these performances to match. What I am looking for are good, new recordings of at least decent performances with good SACD-DSD sound. Are the BIS SACDs stereo or surround?
Also, does anyone have a recommendation for a good SACD Scheherazade, preferably a recent DSD recording?
Follow Ups:
Thanks for the (34) helpful responses. The collective knowledge and insight available from this group is impressive. - I will be ordering the Vanska Beethoven symphonies and the Reiner Scheherazade.In view of the interest in recordings of these two works, could anyone offer suggestions for SACDs of some of the more popular piano concertos? - Brahms, Rachmaninov, Beethoven?
Thanks again,
Jim
You really can't go wrong with the Living Stereo series. These are some of the greatest recordings of all time.I have nearly a dozen recordings of Brahm's 1st Piano Concerto including Serkin, Ashkenazy, Gilels, Curzon, and Arrau but my new favorite is the Living Stereo SACD recording featuring Rubinstein, Reiner and the Chicago Symphony.
The Rubinstein/Reiner just sounds beautiful...gorgeous sonics, fresh, amazing.... The performance just jumps out into the room giving me the sensation of being at a live concert. This was the first Living Stereo SACD recording that I bought and I must say that I have been deeply impressed with everything (that I have bought) in the series since.
I was equally impressed with the Van Cliburn/Kondrashin Tchaikovsky 1st and Rachmaninov 2nd (on Living Stereo). These recordings have been the standard for fifty years. I have never heard previous issues on LP and CD but the SACD sounds remarkable, as if it were made yesterday. I find the performance just sublime...apparently Van Cliburn was very young (and fresh from winning the Tchaikovsky Competition in Russia) when he made these recordings and all I can say is that some ancient soul must have inhabited his young body, because he plays with the depth and introspection of someone who has been acquainted with these works for a very long time. This recording, more than any I have come across, deserves it's legendary status.
I plan to add the Gershwin (Wild) and Chopin (Rubinstein) Living Stereo Piano Concerti to my collection soon. I have been very happy with the series.
Now if Sony would just re-release the FLEISCHER/Szell recording of Beethoven's "Emperor" Concerto, Decca re-release any of Ashkenazy's recordings of Brahm's 2nd Piano Concerto and Philips re-release the Richter/Kondrashin recording of the Liszt Piano Concerti on SACD, I would be a happy camper.
I am not as enraptured by the Vanska 4&5 as everyone else is. I find the performance not totally involving--I'm just not swept away by it. The sound is impressive, but not the best. My favorite remains the Masur on Philips, an old analog but still impressive recording of a performance that seems, to me at least, just a bit romantic yet still powerful and controlled. Whatever you do, don't buy the clangorous Kleiber on DG which so many have been crazy about all these years. The sound will scare you away from your stereo, and the performance is maniacal.By all means, avoid the Philips Scheherazade. DSD is no guarantee of sonic excellence, as this disc proves, perhaps better than any other I've ever heard. Not only is the sound awful, awful, awful, but the performance is bizarre.
Many people rave about the LS Reiner reissue for a reason--it is simply the best available on SACD so far, among the top performances of all time, remastered to SACD with stunning results. The hiss is not that bad, and the other audio attributes and orchestral playing far outweigh the shortcomings of an old recording. Analog is not necessarily bad. Don't get hung up on DSD recordings because you'll miss a lot of the best performances ever recorded.
Tom, you wrote, "By all means, avoid the Philips Scheherazade. DSD is no guarantee of sonic excellence, as this disc proves,"Although Philips has released a number of excellent DSD recordings, the Gergiev Scheherazade on the Philips label is NOT a DSD recording. Neither are his Shostakovich Philips SACDs. Thus the poor quality of the Philips Scheherazade perhaps supports the notion that it could have sounded much better had it been a DSD recording.
The BIS Beethoven symphonies by the Minnesota Orchestra are also not DSD but these high rez PCM recordings are intricately detailed and spacious, albeit lacking the ultimate refinement and seamlessness of a pure DSD recording. I do find the performances to be very fresh, exciting and compelling.
Kelly,Have you heard the Haitink Beethovens? I really enjoy the performances and the sound is first rate, to my ears, at least. They sound like pure DSD to me.
Hello Steve,I have bought the entire Haintink Beethoven Cycle on LSO Live but it is in a mile-high pile of yet-unplayed SACDs that has been accumulating due to system upgrading and house moving.
According to SACD-net, those are all pure DSD recordings, although some LSO Live recordings are 176K 24bit according to the liner notes. I'm glad you like them. I have come across only enthusiastic responses to the Haitink cycle, so I can't wait to hear them.
Tell about your new upgrades! And about your new room!
Robert C. Lang
...Is the Smetana recording of Ma Vlast.....sound on par with the Beethovens and wonderful conducting by Sir Colin Davis...about the last person I would associate with this piece, but this is a wonderful reading, performaance, and sound capture.
....outstanding, IMO. Each individual symphony performance as good or better than I've heard from the "classics" (my taste, of course). Sound is extraordinarily good...best capture of an orchestra in SACD multichannel I have heard yet. But a warning: I do use a native DSD Sony machine, which does a better job of ambience retrieval than most....If you like Walters lyricism and propulsive thrust, and Kleiber's tempos...this set combines them.
...BTW the original live cycle in London that led to these recordings got rave review. The orchestra and conductor just did the whole cycle over again in NYC (just three weeks ago) also to rave reviews.
Harry
My wife ordered this as a present two weeks ago, still waiting........
no reference at all as to where pressed....almost certainly someplace in Europe.I bought mine from CD Universe about a month ago...they had them in stock at that time, shortly after they came out.
Harry
The only recent Scheherazade recording on SACD that I am aware of is the Gergiev on Philips, released a few years ago. It should be avoided like the plague! It's sonically one of the worst SACDs ever released.As others have suggested, go with the Reiner/CSO which sounds pretty good for an ancient analog recording. The performance can hardly be criticized.
"The only recent Scheherazade recording on SACD that I am aware of is the Gergiev on Philips, released a few years ago. It should be avoided like the plague! It's sonically one of the worst SACDs ever released."Check out the reviews of this on sa-cd.net. YMMV
Excellent performance and sound. You can try ClassicsToday.com or SACD.net for reviews.I'm not about to get slammed by the usual suspects here by offering comments on the two recordings you mention.
If you get only one set of performances of the Beethoven symphonies on high res audio, this is it. Better than any of the others I've heard (and I've heard most). EXCELLENT sonics and performance - every single one. And you also get a very nice performance of the triple concerto!
....I posted in a rush this am and didn't see the comments here...have not seen any on this new set yet on the web.....I consider it *the* Beethoven to have in SACD for both sound and performance...and one of the best recorded cycles, period.
Harry
Wonderful, wonderful stuff. The entire set is fantastic, both in terms of performance and sound.
Although the LSO Live discs are original DSD recordings, they are IMHO some of the least successful of the bunch, perhaps in significant part because of the difficult recording venue. The LSO discs simply can't compare to Pentatone, Telarc, Channel Classics and the few other companies creating original DSD recordings. Although BIS has abandoned DSD recordings, I have the Vanska 4/5 disc and I agree that the sonics and performance are both excellent.
They are fantastic! Both performance and sonics are top notch. Forget about previous LSO recordings. Go out and buy these. You won't be disappointed.
I partially agree with Dalton in the sense that these two discs are certainly an improvement over some of the earlier recordings. But I still maintain that they fall well short of state-of-the-art for original DSD recordings. Of course, our opinions about sound and performance are necessarily subjective--there is typically no "correct" answer to the question.Since hearing these two discs, I have undertaken a comprehensive update of my music system. After I complete a week or two of burn-in, I'll revisit these discs and see if it alters my opinion in any way.
I didn't go any further with the LSO recordings for LvB symphonies after I heard that one. I stayed clear of other LSO SACDs from what was reported here so I cannot say how much better the LvB may be in comparision to those.While I agree somewhat with posts on this forum about it being one's system, it needs to be taken into account OTHER SACDs sound pretty darn good so that leads to the point there is a disparity in the recording quality.
BTW, I'll take BIS recordings any day listening in multichannel including the Vanska.
I agree with your assessment on the quality of previous LSO SACDs (e.g. the Sibelius, Dvorak symphonies). But this Beethoven set is a different kettle of fish.The Vanska recordings are also good, but I think the Haitink performances are better, less idiosyncratic. The Vanska Beethoven 3rd is my least favorite - he emphasizes dynamic range too much. There's way too much ppp string playing.
Overnight delivery would do nicely! :)
The Fritz Reiner/Chicago Symphony recording on the RCA Living Stereo label is legendary. It's the best Scheherazade recording of all time.The SACD sounds remarkable. It's like going back in time to the day the piece was recorded (1958 if I am not mistaken).
I cannot overstate the sonic beauty of this recording. It's the closest thing to a live performance of Scheherazade as has ever been put on disc.
The entire Living Stereo catalog, everything in it sounds miraculously fresh. I am always astonished at how good these recordings sound. It's a testament to SACD that these recordings have never been presented better. Each one is a treasure and must have.
The Reiner recording has great sound and playing, but IMHO is stiff and unyielding as an interpretation. I'm a huge Reiner fan but I would have preferred Stokowski, as an example, for this piece.
Stokowski has at least two recordings of the Scheherazade: The Royal Phil. Orch. with violinist Erich Gruenberg on RCA Victor Red Seal label and the London Sym. Orch. also with Gruenberg but on London/Decca. Which one were you referring to?
Perhaps I was too quick with my post - I think Scheherazade can be played with more imagination and effect than Reiner manages and suggest Stokowski as more of the type of conductor I'd like to see for this work. It has been a long time since I've actually heard one of Stokowski's recordings of this piece so I can't really pinpoint a specific one for you.
"It's a testament to SACD that these recordings have never been presented better."Not to mention Mark Donahue and SoundMirror in Boston, who actually do the mastering for the Living Stereo series.
Actually, it was recorded in 1960. Yes, it is one of the best Scheherazade on discs, with the sound to match.
Tape hiss is awful. Ambience is artificial. Sound not nearly as good as on modern DSD recordings. Great performances, no argument here, but there are many other great performances.
HowdyIf you are talking about the Reiner "Scheherazade" something is amis. My system is quite flat in freq response and there isn't nearly as much tape hiss as many other great recordings. I know my ears aren't perfect but when I turn it up enough for the tape hiss to be very noticeable the flutes and piccolos are painful.
Besides it's a wonderful performance :)
-
I did an extensive comparison of selected 5ths on SACD - Vanska, Karajan, Keliber, and Masur - after being bowled over by the Vanska recording. You can find the write up on www.sa-cd.net, buried someplace (search on me, tream, or on Beethoven in the forum, if you're interested). The comparison showed that the Vanska recording is everything I thought it was, and holds up to the classic recordings, such as the Karajan and Szell. I have not been as keen on the follow up recordings, but the disc of the 4th and 5th is a major winner.
Osmo Vanska's interpretations are generally first-rate. While I won't say that they beat out any of the greats of the past such as Szell, Toscanini, Walter, etc., they hold their own very well. I have returned to this discs several times since acquiring them.The orchestral playing is perhaps the real star here--very energetic and precise. What a feather in the cap of the Minnesota Orchestra to have landed this recording contract, and what a wonderful showcase it is for them.
They take every adavantage of the opportunity. For example, the string playing is phenomenal--it's quite amazing to hear 16th note passages played so unanimously by the violins--you can hear every note clearly. Lots of heft and impact to the overall ensemble sound, but I could use more prominence from the trumpets at times. The horn playing is superb--you won't hear a better rendition of the trio of the Eroica, for example. The woodwinds are excellent, especially John Miller's solo in the fourth movement of the Fourth. Clean as a whistle. The solo clarinet is excellent, as well. The solo oboe is only average, however.
The recorded sound is beyond reproach. I'm listening to the SACD layer in 2-channel only, but the strings sound very smooth. There's lots of detail and hall ambience--a very realistic approach to recording. Critics has complained about some of the pp passages in the Eroica being nearly inaudible, so be sure to have the level turned up sufficiently so these don't drop out.
The most successful symphonies so far have been the Fourth, Fifth, Third and Eighth (in that order), with the Ninth being somewhat less convincing, due to the barely adequate solo quartet in the last movement. But then, I'm not a big fan of this movement, so it's not a great loss for me.
I would add only that the MCH sound is the very best available. If you want SACD Beethoven, these are as good as CB says.
Dave
..there is a great sacd of beethoven's 1-9 symphonies by the lso.great reviews..see sa-cd.com..do not know the other particulars of the disc as i am not at home at the moment but i believe it is the only sacd of 1-9 available..
there are complete sets w/ masur/leipzieg and karajan/bpo, but neither is, of course, an original dsd recording. i have the vanska 4&5, and have listend only to the 5th at this point. i found it a bit under-energized, and i wasn't as blown away by the sound as i'd expected to be. but this is first time through, and listening to the 2-channel layer on an oppo 970, so my opinion may change as i get more familiar with the performance and have an opportunity to listen on a new machine (the oppo's going back, pioneer dv-46av arriving tomorrow.)
One disc I've played quite often in MCH since I got it. I wasn't quite so enthusiastic about it in 2 channel.
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