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A while ago I ordered three of the newly released Chesky 'the New York Sessions' jazz SA-CD's. The series consist of:1) John Abercrombie & Eddie Gomez: Structures
2) David Hazeltine, George Mraz: Manhattan
3) Hank Jones, Christian McBride, Jimmy Cobb - West of 5th
4) McBride, Jackson, Cobb, Walton - New York TimeI ended up not ordering the Abercrombie disc (sorry John) because upon listening to the sound samples it did not grab me. I may get to it at a later stage. All the others are absolute gems !
The Hazeltine disc can almost be interpreted as an homage to the great Bill Evans trio's. The liner notes say it best: "With understated elan and a sublime sense of interplay, this special triumvirate exudes the cool, swinging elegance of the classic Bill Evans trio [...]." Could not have said it better! It's not Bill Evans, but the spirit is there. A very fine effort that stands alone on its own merits.
Hank Jones was/is part of The Great Jazz Trio. If you can you should order the JSACD's of this ensemble (see my review on sa-cd.net). Jones has a different style than Hazeltine. Less smooth, more adventurous perhaps. A classic. And a privilige to hear him here in this intimate setting, doing his thing at the gentle age of 88. This is a trio in the tradition of jazz trio's from the 50's. Swing. Melody. Improvisation. Great stuff.
This one just came out. Once again I just have to quote the well written liner notes by Howard Mandel. Easy way out for for me, but he says it best: "New York Time comprises four estimable heirs of the long jazz legacy that glories in understated virtuosity, subtle sensibilities and mellow heads. Jackson's rich husky tone [JW: tsax], Walton's deft touch [JW: p], McBride's consistent excellence [JW: b], Cobb's uplifting swing [JW: dr] and exacting emphassis come together as these men listen to each other with genuine empathy."The sound of all three discs is very analog. No sharply defined soundstages with individual instruments carved in their own space, but a live sound in a nicely proportioned acoustic space by a trio or quartet as you would hear it when you are watching from a little distance. It sounds very natural to me, with just that right bit of hall space. A very fine recording effort with exquisite musical content.
Follow Ups:
Agreed, the Chesky New York Sessions SACDs are very nice.But don't forget their recently released SACD "World's Greatest Audiophile Vocal Recordings". Some very good vocal performances from the Chesky catalog - in many cases making their SACD debut - on this SACD !
I found one in Borders (West Of 5th) and another in Barnes & Noble (New York Time) on Sunday, the latter a very rare occurrence indeed since I don't generally see SACDs there.At first listen, the music on West of 5th is right up my alley. I have so many small band jazz recordings on CD and LP that I've lost count. The XA777ES and lowly Music Hall MMF-5 handle those formats quite well on most occasions.
I really haven't concentrated much on jazz for SACD in awhile and this recording is a welcomed addition.
Yes, they are all Single Inventory Hybrid Surround Sound SACDs.
Curious how these sound for that.Some of the jazz titles I've tried listening to in that format are much too strong with regard to the rear channels. That being the sensation of instruments behind you rather than just being subtle for ambience. Pretty much I've steered clear for jazz with multichannel listening. Classical music is a much different story, at least in my listening experiences.
I'll eventually pick these up. I'm sure the XA777ES will do fine with them in just two channel. Multichannel would be an added bonus!
Allthough I consider Heads-up one of my two favorite labels (the other is Chesky), they sometimes get a bit aggressive in the MCH mix. No problem, my Classe has a "trim" function and I just slightly reduce the volume to the rears when I play those discs. IMO Chesky probably does MCH better than anyone. The Chesky discs sound great in MCH.Interestingly Sony takes a very conservative approach. When I listen to KOB I raise the volume to the rears slighly.
Having said all that, percieved MCH volume can depend a lot on the room and speaker placement. My right rear speaker has a slightly greater percieved volume when the numbers say both rears should be the same. I suspect that since that speaker is near a corner, certain frequencies are are preferientally enhanced relative to others. My hearing is probably more sensitive to those frequencies. As a result I keep the volume on this speaker slightly lower than than I do for the left rear. YMMV
Howdy RobertI'm wondering if your rear speakers are too close, or their level is set too high or something.
I've got to say that I don't hear stuff from the rear in most of my jazz recordings nor do my guests. Often they even ask if things are two channel or MC till I explicitly A/B it for them or use the solo buttons to highlight each channel individually...
Perhaps if you listed a few jazz titles you thought were too loud in the back I could explicitly listen to them.
Did you used a meter to set your speaker levels? If your front and back speakers aren't identical a meter can be a problem. I was surprised at the difference when I used the Phonic PAA3 which shows a freq response vs. the Radio Shack level meter. Since my speakers have identical tweeters and mids, but different woofers I set the levels based on 400 Hz and higher.
All Telarc.Land Of Giants
Film Music Of Jerry Goldsmith
TrianguloI would not be of the belief one can just set the levels for the speakers and they are good to go for all recordings. I would assume it depends on the specific title.
I believe you will find at least some disparity amongst these.
HowdyWell, The Goldsmith definitely falls in the rears are invisible until proven otherwise category.
"Land of Giants" is fuller and obviously has been mastered to have instruments showing up in a very wide soundstage, i.e. in the first cut the vibraphone is almost directly to the right.
"Triangulo" is more like the Goldsmith, a traditional presentation, I don't hear the rears unless I mute the fronts or turn my head quite a bit, tho they really do make for a immersive soundstage.
These three would only cause me to reinforce what I was saying. They all sound "correct" with no changes in level. I.e. to me they sound like I believe the masterer built them to sound with no fooling around on my part.
If you don't like aggressive mixes you'll be missing a lot of the music if you attempt to transform them into traditional mixes by lowering the volume of your rears. Take Hiromi for example, her stuff has a lot of full range material coming exclusively from the rears.
The only time I'm ever tempted to mess with levels is when the sub (6th SACD channel) is a little too loud for my tastes on some discs.
HowdyI just got to track 5 of "Triangulo" and the front to backness of the percussion is more ambiguous in that it seems to have been mixed to just over my head :) Still it seems to have been a mastering choice, not just hot rears.
I just don't hear the same subtle ambience as I do on classical recordings. Perhaps it is my Denon 3803 AVR and I'll check my settings but haven't felt the need to do so with classical music.
HowdyI think your system is probably showing you whats really there, for better or worse. There are some other great recordings which I suspect are more to your taste, e.g. DMP.
I have had the exact experience that you have had with respective to not hearing intrusive sounds from the rear channels of most (not all) multi-channel jazz recordings. Just recently, a friend of mine, Richard, came over to listen to jazz. My friend is a jazz hound as I have never known. He lives in jazz houses; I would rank him among the top 5 people that I know whom I would trust as knowing what live jazz sound like (not to mention recorded jazz). Further, Richard had never experienced multi-channel music, except for the movie theater.I played some SACD multi-channel jazz selections, most of which Richard was intimately familiar with as two channel CDs. It was only toward the conclusion of the first couple of multi-channel selections that I mentioned that we were, in fact, listening to multi-channel music. (Although Richard was suspicious of the center speaker, particularly since he thought it was active during the playing of the two channel CD that we initially listened to).
After we played a couple CDs I slipped in Art Blakey/Jazz Messengers
multi-channel "Keystone 3". I was specifically watching to see if Richard was at all "distracted" by the multi-channel presentation. He was not in the least. In "Keystone 3" the only real give away that this is multi-channel is the applause from the audience, which, in part, clearly comes from all around. But by that time occurred Richard was comfortably ensconced/transported in the music, have already determined that he was at a live (near live?) venue. So, the applause from all around was *expected* and not a surprise.By the way, Bill Pierce on tenor sax, is the bomb in this recording, particularly, "In a Sentimental Mood".
Richard pretty much had the same reactions with McCoy Tyner's "Illuminations". Although on this one I did specifically avoid some tracks that are a bit agressively mixed.
I have found that rear channel intrusion, that is found in a few jazz multi-channel recordings jazz is simply because the artist or the engineers or both want it that way. An aggressive mix found in some jazz releases, such as Telarc’s “Monte Meets Sly and Robbie (see my comments at http://www.sa-cd.net/showreviews/449#3198) is an artistic choice, not an insoluble mix of the genre and the technology.
And over the past three years or so it is clear to me that sound engineers are learning (and it is a learning process) to better exploit the virtues of multi-channel. I believe Joe McQueen’s “Ten at 86”, is the quintessential utilization of multi-channel in jazz. There is no center channel utilized here, although you would never suspect it by listening. And the surround channels are utilized to an effective perfection. As with the best multi-channel SACDs in my collection, to the listener who is not aware that a multi-channel source is being played (such as was Richard) it simply sounds like the very best “stereo” presentation that a two-channel system could possibly muster. That is, until you switch to stereo and the acoustic space significantly flattens.
In most of my SACD jazz recordings I am generally unaware of the rear channels unless I was intent on making a two-channel/multi-channel comparison (which I rarely do anymore because it’s rudely disruptive and almost always a waste of time).
Robert C. Lang
IME the best way to set the levels is subjectively from the sweet spot, using white noise. Many players allow you to do this in setup. If not, some early Telarc's and some DVD-A's include such test bands on the CD.
Harry
HowdyYep the Telarc 1812 SACD has pink noise tracks and some meters come with CDs with pink noise on them as well as many AV receivers/processors...
I find that the PAA3 gives a result that works for more people than just my ears :)
Traffic by White/Coryell/Bailey and Mysterious Shorter by Payton/Belden/Yahel/Hart/Drummond.Traffic is a jam (no pun intended). Some of the best electric bass and guitar I've heard on record.
Just picked up Mysterious Shorter and am still digesting it (as with all, sonics are great. I think it may be the unusual instrumentation -- hammond B3 organ, guitar, trumpet, sax and drums but no bass -- that is taking me some time to get used to.
I also like Structures (this disc is very improvisational, more adventurous) and Manhattan. West of 5th and New York Time will probably come into my collection at some point in the future. (FYI, Circuit City online has these for by far the best price I've seen).
This is a great disc. Lenny White is just incredible on this one. Recorded in a church, live with no over dubs, different kind of sound to be sure.
Thanks for the suggestions for the other discs. Circuitcity does have a good price indeed (13.99) and if you buy three you get free shipping. I bought mine at Amazon (14.99) using their credit card offer ($30 off first purchase). They are also available on the marketplace for under 14 dollars.As usual the prices are all over the place. I like doing pricechecks. Another good source is RedrumMedia.com where if you buy three (15.71) you get free shipping. Cduniverse has them at 17.35, Acoustic Sounds charges 18.98 and Elusive disc charges 18.99 - add shipping to these guys and we are in the 10 dollar difference category again. For some reason Music Direct does not seem to carry them. Buy.com charges 16.93
CD Universe offers excellent pricing - but only if you preorder. I bought all mine through them for about $14 each - and had them in my SACD player on Wednesday (they were released on Tuesday). So CD Universe's customer service is top flight.I'll have to check out redrummedia.com, as I've not been to their site yet. (Might end up spending more money today than I'd planned - thanks a lot!)
John Crossett____________________________
It sounds like English, but I can't understand a word you're saying.
Give the Abercrombie a try. I really think you'll come to appreciate its virtues. I will admit, Abercrombie is a bit more abstract as a jazz guitarist, but the music is outstanding. And the sonics go without question.
John Crossett____________________________
It sounds like English, but I can't understand a word you're saying.
For my views on this series, click the link.I have all of them, and they are, one and all, uniformily excellent. I hope Chesky will/can continue this series, as it's some of the best new jazz I've heard in a long time.
John Crossett____________________________
It sounds like English, but I can't understand a word you're saying.
...along with a quietness that are spooky in the sense of atmosphere they create." You said that well John ! I think we heard the same thing. I'll end up trying the others discs for sure. How 'frantiic' is the Traffic disc. Since 'Steps Ahead' I gave up on fusion, so I am not sure I will like this. But who knows, it may surprise me...
Joel,Traffic is a fusion disc, but not exactly as fusion was defined in the 1970's. With only the three musicians, there's more space for them to stretch out. Coryell in particular is in fine form. I went into this disc wondering, like you, if I would like it. Boy did I ever. Same with the Abercrombie. They may not end up in "heavy rotation", but I'll bet they'll get played more than you might think.
John Crossett____________________________
It sounds like English, but I can't understand a word you're saying.
I have these same three and they are all outstanding. Chesky always does a first rate job. Its funny because I chose not to buy the Abercrombie title for the same reason.Thanks for posting. Hopefully others will see this and order them.
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