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In Reply to: This Must Be a Candidate For.... posted by Todd Krieger on May 8, 2007 at 01:59:40:
Thanks for the kind words. I really enjoy this hobby and I can't see myself abandoning it at any point in my life. What gets depressing is reading time and time again how the music industry is dying, how this hobby is dying etc., etc., when there is ample proof to the contrary. It may not be the same as it once was, and it might not be in a better state, but it's not down and out. The folks at Head-fi, iPod Lounge and other hardware-centric sites have a healthy audience of music lovers looking to get the best out of their music. These are mostly people on a tight budget but are striving to max out the quality on what they can afford. These same people once they get into a good position, will invest in better gear and likely will have been exposed to a ton of great music that falls outside the genres targeted at their demographic.The great thing is that at the same time, while the younger folks are receiving wonderful music recommendations, they in turn can do the same for those that may not be current. Todd you list some excellent bands and folks like you and Elrod Tom over at Head-fi are prime examples of people who just want to listen to good stuff, no matter what it is or when it was made, so long as it is good, they'll take it.
Another great artist is Steve Burns of...if one can believe it...Blue's Clues fame. He left the show to pursue his music career and his first album, which was very well received by the indie press, was produced by members of the Flaming Lips. There are plenty of sleeper albums and sleeper bands out there to be sure.
The net has been the best thing for younger folks because they are able to get exposed to music that is not pushed by the RIAA via ClearChannel. Places like MySpace are superb for finding new and up and coming bands. Sure 90% may suck, but the 10% that don't are wonderful! I suppose 90% of most genres suck pretty hard. Many people want to be musicians, few have the prowess to do it well.
Sites like Audio Asylum and Audiogon are awesome too. Like you, I've learned more about this hobby, the tech, music etc, than anywhere else. I come here daily, I read through a number of the boards and I'm an avid poster on Head-fi. Interacting with people who have far more knowledge and experience is a golden resource not to be overlooked. What is great too is the mix of people, those that have 30 years in the hobby and who have had the means to have a 6 figure+ system but have over time narrowed it to a just over 5 figure or below. Yet they achieve incredible sound. It means that even on smallish budgets one has hope! At the same time it is awesome to read about guys who have rigs costing more luxury homes in some areas of the world.
Many claim that this generation is bombarded with media and is therefore brainwashed. This may be true to a large extent but it happens in everything. Many claim the likes of Stereophile and TAS do nothing but harm the hobby. Certainly mainy bemoan their recommendations and fear that it is all advertiser driven. If true, that means the young and old alike have to worry about sifting through the muck here too. Reading posts gives a broader perspective and certainly in an ideal world a more balanced impression of the gear available.
Like anything serious, one has to work at it. This hobby apparently has more manufacturers now than at any other point in history. If true, this says something about how the hobby is growing or at least changing. Maybe the big big players have moved on but the cottage industry is healthy and offering some great value. This combined with all the new music available means there is a good future for the hobby. It might not be like it was in the golden age of high fidelity but hopefully it won't embarrass it either.
Follow Ups:
Well, that's another story!I can't honestly say that the audiophiles I know get more out of their music than many MP3-wielding youngsters. And as a musician myself, I can tell you that most pro and semi-pro musicians have systems that would make you cringe. Yet they hear as deeply or more so into the music than the average audiophile. And I run across few individuals that are as music-savvy as one friend of mine who uses a Sony rack system. He has no interest in pursuing "sonic nirvana" and he doesn't dig the music any more when in front of a $50K system than he does in front of his $800 one, even though he admits the "sound" is clearer. Go figure.
There is more good music available today than ever. Perhaps it's simply because there's more *music* available. We still have the 60's rock and jazz I grew up on and now we can even look back on the grunge and punk era's, the jazz fusion era, and folks like Morton Feldman who are no longer with us. I've recently discovered a whole new world of music and I've been a software collector since 1971. If I lived to be 1 million years old, I will never hope to be able to hear everything worth hearing.
I wish I had some answers for the state of audio. It seems like appliances for most people and, indeed, it's a means to an end... or should be. No matter how many people come here or how many you deal with on the boards, it's an extremely small niche group of music lovers. But I'm happy to hear that there are younger folks getting in tune with what a well thought out audio system can do for them.
It may be in fine shape in regard to pulling in the moolah.... But in regard to the product the artists are putting out, so much of it is overprocessed and lacking in artistic depth, I'm finding stuff I once didn't care for in the past a lot more attractive. Including Bruce Springsteen, Andrea Bocelli, Tom Waits, Yes, etc. .....It's like, I now regret bashing Kurt Elling. In the scope of what's out there now, he's not so awful.
Then you may be right.But I just got a load of new jazz, some new Xenakis discs, the latest Hafler Trio, some Nurse With Wound from the last few years and a bunch more modern classical (Tod Dockstader's electronic music is amazing!) and a few other things. None of these guys are rolling in dough. Suffice it to say that with all the new music I purchase monthly, I not even scratching the surface of the excellent stuff out there. You might need to expand your horizons a bit but it's there. Shoot me an email with some idea of where you branch out from pop and I'll be happy to send you a few experiments.
Sheesh, what's the last rock CD I bought? Um... Lee Michaels Live (from 1972) and... oh, yeah, the latest Dylan. Before that, I'd have to wrack my brain. Sorry to say that NOTHING would make Springsteen or his music attractive to me. :) Honest, hardworking rocker, to be sure, but it just doesn't move me.
I had a double CD of Xenakis' chamber music for the longest time. I thought it was unapproachable. For some reason, about a year ago, I "got" it. Hafler Trio and Nurse with Wound lay very very far in my past, I remember the Elephant Table album and some mail orders I did from RRR Records...but I'm not so much into the noise as I was then.For me, most of the discovery is in classical music and there are worlds to discover. I just got done with a week of repeatedly listening to Pollini playing Shumann's Fantasy in C and Lizst's Sonata. This is just very standard repertoire stuff, but I never spent time with either before. What a revelation this one CD has been. Fantastic.
And then I like to go way off the beaten track. Rubbra and Robert Simpson, one of my recent favorites, Saariaho, anything put out by the Arditti Quartet (and that leads into some unusual corners)...just got some Szymanowski and Scelsi...and there is no end to it. I'm thinking seriously of going for a complete set of Allan Pettersson's symphonies.
And although rock is not my primary listening anymore, I still hear plenty to like. Lately The Good The Bad and the Queen (I'm a sucker for that sort of Brit-pop) and the latest masterpiece from Nick Cave- Grinderman- and the new Bright Eyes is on my to get list...and every month Mojo magazine has a bunch I've never heard of...so I will never run out of music.
Although some of NWW and Hafler Trio's discs are either mostly noise or contain some "noise", I would consider most of it more "musique concrete" or "ambient". I never thought I could listen to ambient until I heard NWW's "Salt Marie Celeste" and I sat rapt for over an hour listening to tape loops. Maybe knowing the story of the Mary Celeste ship helped, I don't know.Yes, the modern classicists seem to have a pretty fair lock on a lot of the new music I buy - which is cool since I don't listen to a lot of Mozart, Chopin, etc. You mentioned Robert Simpson who I really enjoy. Elliot Carter is rapidly becoming a favorite as well as Charles Wuorinen and Christian Wolfe.
As for "getting it"... well... sometimes you just have to bathe in it to get it. Sometimes getting it isn't necessary as long as you respond emotionally to the music. The first time I heard Sonic Youth, I flipped. It took a few years and some experience with Glenn Branca and Rhys Chatham before I "got" Sonic Youth.
I'm one who happens to champion expanding horizons.....The problem is not being aware of the existence of potential horizons..... For every one I am aware of, there may be hundreds that I'm not..... I could have spent days, weeks, months on the web, and not find what you just listed. (And if I did see what you listed, the names alone are amongst thousands. I wouldn't have a clue which are the gems. I may have already overlooked a lot. Sampling music takes time.)
To give you an idea, let's say I didn't have the roommate I had, and this discovery (link) never happened. I'd probably be whining and groaning about the lack of decent music today even worse than I've been doing. Yet based on the stereotypes and musical exposure, I never would have imagined this kind of music being performed in that part of the world. (I've heard too much out-of-tune ranchero on the radio. And I do get strange reactions when I tell people my favorite recent rock artist is from Mexico.) It would have been a horizon that I never knew existed, and never imagined existing.
There may be 20 other artists like that. But if there are, I haven't been able to find them. Then again there may not be any. I don't know.
So as far as I'm concerned, posts like yours are like gold..... Please, list some more....
By the way, the state of the music industry is based on what most people are aware of. There are too many walls out there.
> The problem is not being aware of the existence of potential horizons..... For every one I am aware of, there may be hundreds that I'm not. <I understand your point completely. For me, subscriptions to The Wire and Signal To Noise magazines are essentials... of biblical proportions. I like "weird" music, no denying. The interesting thing is that while some of it should certainly be feared as "noise", a lot of it is mild and calm, sometimes chillingly so. Quite by accident, I found a disc by Dead Voices On Air called "How Hollow Heart". They have a piece of there that scares the sh@t out of me. Spooky. Anytime music makes one react emotionally like that, It Is Good.
> By the way, the state of the music industry is based on what most people are aware of. There are too many walls out there. <
Yes, isn't it sad? It's almost like Frank Zappa's "Joe's Garage" and good music is illegal. :). I have a suggestion that's free. Go to Amazon.com and find your 5 favorite discs, preferably ones that aren't too mainstream (no using the first Boston or Lynyrd Skynyrd). Open up the album description. Usually to the right and/or left are lists created by listeners. In some manner, each of those lists equates to your album. The trick is finding the lists that take the music you love and steer you in another direction. As an example, a list under a Sonic Youth disc (which I mentioned in a post just above) might be about Thurston Moore's musical influences. It would then list several discs by those influences. Check 'em out and give one or two of them a try. Usually that sends you in a whole 'nuther direction.
Sampling music is hit or miss as well as time consuming. But I'll never forget when, being a HUGE John Zorn fan, that I bought a CD by a Japanese rock band named Melt Banana. I bought it because it was on Zorn's label. Shortly after hearing it, I bought a few more of theirs on a different label. Not long after that I discovered more Japanese bands such as The Boredoms, Assfort, Friction (KILLER) and Boris.
By the way, if one likes modern classical, thrash, noise, jazz, lounge, improv, string quartets, surf music, punk, or film music, there is a John Zorn disc waiting for them. He's gotta be the most eclectic composer ever. He has an apartment on The Bowery in NYC and he took all the kitchen appliances out so he could store more CD's and books. My kinda guy! :)
Thanks. You've given me hope for the future.
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