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In Reply to: "as-is" and "not guaranteed against shipping damage" - what does it mean? posted by Don T on April 12, 2007 at 12:03:26:
I cannot see why anyone would even do business with someone making this sort of 'preclaim' against damage.
Even the rarest item in the world is not enough to make me put up with this sort of nonsense.
Follow Ups:
Well, let me save some people some time if they ever run across any of my ads or auctions. . .. . . For me, "as is", means it's sold the way it "is" when I typed the description. I know other sellers of audio gear that have actually gotten burned by that. They sold a CD player as "non-working, parts only", but somewhere in their listing they added that they did get it to read a CD once out of nine tries. Buyer complained to ebay anyway, eBay forced seller to take it back because it "didn't work".
Anyway, I describe the item to the best of my ability, and I state that it is "as-is", meaning it will be the way I described when you get it, but no warranty implied. Sometimes if an item is in good shape, or it's something I've refurbished, I'll offer a warranty of some sort, and say so in the listing. SO, if someone else uses the term "as-is", I interpret it the same way I mean it when I use it.
As for "not responsible for shipping damage", do any of you expect that a seller that goes through the trouble to properly pack an item, and make sure it is in great shape when leaving, should make themselves responsible for something after they no longer have control of it? The only problem I ever had with something I sold was a pair of Magnepan MGIIIa speakers that I listed "local pickup only". A guy e-mailed saying he "had" to have them, and would I let him bid. I told him if he would be responsible for shipping costs, and understand that they were fragile, and if he accepted responsibility for anything that might happen in shipping, sure, he could bid. Of course, he won. I had them professionally packed at the shipper's, and insured them for double the winning bid (out of my own pocket for the insurance), and he still complained when they arrived. Lucky I had the shipper pack them in this case, because even though it was not adequately done, it was their problem not mine.
Now though, I pack everything myself. No way am I going to rebuild something and see it get trashed on arrival.
So, for those of you who think that my interpretation of "as-is", and "not responsible for shipping damage" is not reasonable, feel free to avoid my listings. I use this name here and at AK, and on ebay, I'm "half_wit". I have no audio gear listed anywhere currently, so don't think I'm putting in a "plug" for anything. (That said though, I do NEED a few things, and if anybody has a Tandberg pinch roller for a reel-to-reel deck, in ANY condition, let me know PLEASE).
Look if guarantee it arrives "as you describe it" and promise to pack properly and allow me to buy insurance why wouldn't someone buy from you.That in my opinion is as much protection as I expect from a seller offering a 100% return policy.
I recently bought a tuner. It was described as working as it should be. Well it arrived with no output from the right channel. Regardless if the seller was offering a 100% return guarantee or a guarantee that is would arrive as described my $$$$ are covered. I had insured the item for shipping loss or damage but no shipping damage occured.
I would not have bought this item unless I knew the seller would take care of me. Whether or not I believe the item was working or not before the item was mailed makes no difference whatsoever - the fact that it was not working when I got it is what is important.
I could send the item back to the seller for a full refund - instead I'm going to have it fixed and he'll refund up to a certain amount of my purchase price.
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Well, if you actually read what I wrote, please do avoid my "stuff". Your loss.
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have to do is post a "not guaranteed against shipping damage" Ad and faster than you could say "digital stinks" they'd have their man!
Don't bid on my auctions. I'd never list anything without that proviso.I've sold very little in the way of audio equipment, but I wouldn't change my terms & conditions one bit for anything. After more than 11,000 sales on eBay, I still have a 100% positive feedback rating. If I don't describe every flaw that I can ascertain, then it's my reputation at stake.
I wouldn't risk that, especially for the sake of someone who sees that as a deal-breaker. And if someone can't tell that after ratings well into the thousands on multiple IDs, that I'm not capable of describing something properly, then I don't want to do business with that person anyway. Especially since it's not that difficult to ask questions.
That said, high-end audio is a specialized area & I do understand a certain measure of reluctance. And of course we've all run into our share of sharks & lowlifes on eBay. But since some are buyers, the necessary thing to do is to include that language. Similarly, the only way to do things on the seller's side is to include every relevant factor in the description, positive or negative. And if I'm selling for someone, as I am most of the time, they have to accept that I'm not going to sugarcoat their item, either, and if that means we split less money, so be it. My feedback rating & reputation are far more important to worry about such nonsense.
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I deal with sellers who I feel can be trusted based on their feedback. I expect my buyers to consider buying something they're interested in, if my price works for them, from me, based on the same criteria. Yr choice to refuse to deal with someone with 100% positive feedback over several years, thousands of satisfied customers, and no unsatisfied customers, is noted.
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The integrity of a seller means nothing? No, I don't think that was over the top at all. What criteria exactly DO you use when deciding whether or not to bid on an online item that you desire & the price for which you find agreeable? Dancing bunnies in the background?Although to say I don't understand yr attitude is an understatement, I will continue to do business the right way, and that includes specifying 'as-is.' If I didn't, I can assure you I would no longer have a business to run.
I'll keep to accurate descriptions, holding up my end of the transaction, and receiving nothing but positive feedback from satisfied customers; and I will consider myself fortunate that I won't have to engage in a transaction with someone whose words indicate that the integrity of the seller is not a consideration for them.
The internet seller buying and selling to make money as the primary goal, is someone I would not buy from anyway.
I look for people who actually owned, and used the equipment, in their own system.
If I want a retailer, I will find a genuine retailer, not some dude who sells stuff he dug up at the local Goodwill out of his basement.
Feedback can be an indicator of trust, but it can also be manipulated.
nt
Bill Bailey
___________________________________________
See my stereo config
Basically what you are saying is that any disclaimer is valid. In that you show the extent to which the USA has fallen when it comes to respect for law and equity. You are a true technician.
MY disclaimer is valid. If someone has the same disclaimer & they have a low feedback rating with a poor percentage of positives, then it's up to you to determine whether or not you're willing to do business with them.What does yr opinion of the USA have to do with this? Are you kidding? My respect for law & equity? It's pretty obvious to anyone who does business with me.
My feedback ratings which are 100% positive across the board speak for themselves. Oh, and I've sold to people in at least 50 countries with no problem. So...
In what way does his post lead you to draw such a conclusion? Or are you just anti US? I dont agree with him but you asume all folks in the US are like this give me a break.Lots of things in the US that you could complain about why just make sh-t up?
Because I deal with US companies year round and that is simply the way things are. Seems to me that the only thing that matters is who has the biggest hammer. The fact that a contract is a meeting of the minds is just a quaint notion nowadays. People now only see things in a limited technical view and think they know better. I just have to look at the numerous posts here and on 'Agon where people try to sort out a transaction that went bad to see how many people think. That people's credo is "what can I get away with" is, as far as I'm concerned, fair comment. Sorry to all the honest folks around. Why blame the US? Simple enough: when you guys sneeze, we all catch a cold.
Dave
Later Gator,
Crank up your talking machine, grab a jar of your favorite "kick-back", sit down, relax, and let the good times roll.Eagles may soar, but weasels do not get sucked into jet engines.
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