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In Reply to: ? about a Cheater plug to eliminate hum---might this configuration cause "death"? posted by jjk12 on April 6, 2007 at 15:19:26:
For starter we're not exactly talking brain surgery here, the purpose of safety ground is easy to understand.Second it seems to me that while having a safety ground obviously does provide protection over having none at all, it is also true that there is an element of a false sense of security. The sort of fault were talking about here, the hot wire becoming disconnected and contacting the chassis, is a *major* fault. Hence who's to say that such a major fault didn't likewise involve a disconnection of the safety ground wire?... certainly it's not *impossible*.
Double-insulation likewise carries the same risk... who's to say the fault isn't one which involves the hot wire coming in contact with the outer shell?... certainly it's not *impossible*.
The only complete protect involves having a non concuctive shell and controls... remember those old plastic radios?
Lastly, anyone who would put up with hum for fear of getting a 120V shock... and I can personally attest that, 1. I've had a few, and, 2. I'm not communicating from the grave... doesn't deserve to be called an audiophile as far as I'm concerned!
Save me, save me... from over-zealous engineering safety nuts!
LOL
Follow Ups:
You said that:"Lastly, anyone who would put up with hum for fear of getting a 120V shock... ".
Yes, chopping off the ground pin works. So does taking the battery out of an annoying smoke detector, or putting "pennies in the fuse box" as they once did. But these are not the proper ways to fix these problems.
Your assertion would be valid if defeating the ground pin was the ONLY way to solve the problem. But it is not. It's a JIRY RIG - a WORKAROUND for those who lack the ability to correct ground loop problems the RIGHT way. If anyone should be stripped of the "audiophile title" it's these amateurs that needlessly defeat a safety mechanism because it's easy and requires no self-education about ground loops and what REALLY causes them.
Then again, I think being called an audiophile is somewhat of a negative reflection of ones overall psychological condition and is not a title I'd be really afraid of losing anyhow.
But one thing is for sure: cutting off a ground pin because of a ground loop is as sensible as cutting off your head to cure a headache.
Anyone willing to learn anything from this thread has already done so. bjh is just using this thread for mental masturbation purposes.
Do you buy lottery tickets?
we learn that there are 1000 Americans killed by electric shocks every year. My goodnes that is a whopping 2% of those killed by smoking! Oh wait, that's based on deaths due to second hand smoke (estimate 40-60,000 per year), if we compare with smoking mortality proper, i.e. smokers, then that 1000 comes to 0.25% (of 400,000 a year).Perhaps you and your like can exert your energy where it could do more practical good? Just a thought.
LOL (and I told you not to make me do that!)
It's one thing to say, "Statistically, this is unlikely to affect me."It's an entirely different thing to actively increase your chances of becoming one of those statistics.
You are certainly free to rationalize your choices, and AFAIC you are free to harm, maim, or kill yourself as a result of your rationalizing. Just make sure there's no chance that your choice to deliberately ignore safety features and regulations will affect anyone else.
I promise not to invite anal-retentive safety types over for a listen, how's that?
bjh, your post relates only to a bared hot conductor coming into contact to chassis condition, and I agree that possibility is remote. On the other hand voltage leakage through a primary winding of a power transformer is possible and does happen on occasion.If you are talking about an audio system that is in an audio room with limited access sure then maybe no big deal. But if the audio system is in someones living room where possible access by small children or the like then safety should be a concern. Children like to touch things with both hands at the same time. Sure they have been told to stay away from dad's or grand paw's audio system but when someones not watching, kids will be kids. The deadliest current is between 100ma to 200ma. A leakage voltage as low as 50Vac could harm a child.
Face it, like I believe you were trying to say in your first post, the possibility of the owner user of the equipment receiving an electrical shock maybe remote. Sure if the floor is wood or carpet that eliminates a current path from a hand across the heart through say bare feet. And the chances of a user owner having one hand on a ground lifted component and the other hand on a grounded component is remote. I mean the old rule of thumb if it might be hot make sure your body is insulated from any grounded object and keep one arm behind your back.
What fraction of the general population comprises audiophiles? What fraction of the general population disables the grounds on their electrical appliances?
is a desperate cry for help, or a pre-Easter fundamentalist tent revival! I suppose it makes sense that, if bjh is such a daredevil, he's got some snake-handlin' in his past. Praise the Lord, and Hallelujah, my stereo shall rise again!Hey, if you want to clip the ground prong on every cord you own, feel free. As I said in a previous post, in the greater scheme of life the chance of disaster is probably small. You can also prop that "old plastic radio" on the edge of your bath tub-and gfic be damned! NEC codes are for Losers and Whiners. After all, you're an audiophile- Danger Is Your Business!
Seriously, do as you see best. I just like to show a different perspective so people see both sides, and that allows them to make an educated decision. Right?
I've been bitten by 110/120 before also, (who hasn't) but that's not the point. Your body's resistance to ground at the time of conductance will determine whether or not your muscles contract, and you can or cannot release the metal. If you cannot, fibrillation will soon follow. Believe it or not, 110/120 can be more dangerous in this regard than higher voltages.But, as I said....
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