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In Reply to: Re: Example of Why Unions Are Formed posted by soflaspeed on March 30, 2007 at 11:51:25:
i am currently employed in the paper industry. things like that have occurred in the past, thats true.Ah but you see there is one line that stands out.....
"if a young guy like me worked at a faster clip, we were reprimanded...by the bosses!"
This is due to improper management. A union cannot protect anyone who does not do thier job. they can be reprimanded, and terminated...as long as an agreed upon set of procedures are followed.
"These men had it all figured out how to make 2 hours worth of work last all day."
Once again, foreman or supervisors not doing what their jobs require. It is human nature in ANY occupation for some people to do nothing, if supervision does not enforce their expectations.
Todays workforce has changed. Contracts have flexibility clauses installed to stop events like you describe. Pipeefillters,millwrights, and electricians are crosstrained in order to be more efficient.
while your example is a classic one used in describing the deficiencies of unions....heres another thought. What happens when unqualified/untrained individuals attelpt to repair a piece of equipment? there is a significant risk they will be hurt....and industrial machinery is quite unforgiving. In my career i have seen several summer students or new employees injured due to their lack of experience, or inability to understand their surroundings. Sometimes there is a division of labor for very good reasons.
Regards
Mister Pig
Follow Ups:
"In my career i have seen several summer students or new employees injured due to their lack of experience, or inability to understand their surroundings." Yeah, changing the lightbulb would have put me at risk for injury. Only joking.I think the overriding impression I took away from working in the closed-shop is the culture of doing as little as possible, and being proud of it. That was the philosophy of the entire place, heck, the entire town!
And you are absolutely right regarding the shortcomings of the supervisors and "bosses". You see, the supervisors were still union, while the managers or "whate hats" were salaried. All of the supervisors were in on the deception. They acted like high school kids pulling the wool over the teachers eyes. It frankly was embarrassing.
I did work in management for a company who "suffered" a union campaign. We successfully beat the union effort. You know that without exception, the employees who supported the union were the same employees that I had the most trouble with! The employees who took extra long breaks, who hid from customers, who avoided 'volunteering' to assist in projects outside of their immediate area of responsibility but were still required of them periodically, who were the last in yet the first to want to go home. The same employees who never understood the meaning fo teamwork, and were forever trying to get something for nothing were the staunchest union supporters. Kind of fell right in line with what I had experienced as a college kid in that mill.
I know my perceptions are probably scewed a little too far right. And I do believe there are some union members who are industrious and strive for better relationships with the companies they work for in pursuit of greater market share, more profits for everyone on the team, and better working conditions, wages, etc. They are just in the minority.
"I do believe there are some union members who are industrious and strive for better relationships with the companies they work for in pursuit of greater market share, more profits for everyone on the team, and better working conditions, wages, etc. They are just in the minority."in the private sector, I believe this is mor of the norm. To survive in todays market, unions and management have to work towards the same goal. The rank and file recognize this, and the majority of them do attempt to look out for the comanies(and their own)self interest.
However, there are lazy workers, just as there are bad managers. And the union really can't protect them. Although management may choose to tolerate them. For instance I have seen employees who disregard safe work practices admonished by their fellow employees. When properly implemented the system can work.
Regards,
Mister Pig
"The employees who took extra long breaks"I am making these posts from home while on vacation.
Are you doing the same? It would be unethical to use company time to surf the net and post to AA.
Of course if you are salary, it would be possible to justify the time you surf from work.
Just a question.
Regards,
Mister Pig
I own the company.
Glad to hear it. I amdire individuals who have the willingness to take the risk and do the work of running a company. I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor.Regards,
Mister Pig
There are valid observations on both sides.But in the case of Circuit City. Imagine asking those 3000+ employess how well their efforts were rewarded. they might have a different opinion about the value of a negioated work contract.
And just how well were they rewarded for being a team player? Working outside thier field of specialty, or coming in on their days off? Thats a nice reward, being replaced by lower paid workers....heck their jobs wern't even eliminated.
Regards,
Mister Pig
I must say though that it sounds like you have well formulated ideas based on your own life experiences. As you said there a valid points on both sides.Hey, maybe we'll meet across the negotiating table some day?
Oh not likely. I am just a rank and file member. Do not hold an office. My thoughts are just based on my life experiences, and the Business Administration degree I earned from Easern Washington University.Regards,
Mister Pig
Oh, I agree with you more than you think regarding CC. It really is a bonehead PR move, but one that unfortunately is necessary due to the competitive disadvantage they put themselves in. I do feel that many of the employees probably deserved better. I hope most of them saw this coming and prepared themselves for their next position.But I can't help but wonder what a union could have done for them. Hold on to their compensation plan while the company went under? You see, a company with poor management that fails to act in a timely manner to remain competitive is better off than one who cannot act because of a collective bargaining agreement because they still can make necessary changes to "right the ship". Even if those changes are unpopular.
I tried before I left Circuit City to shed some light on what I believed to be a flawed management style, cumbersome employee review process and lack of a proper recognition and reward system for the salespeople who did have passion for what they did. Ultimately I left because I could not embrace their management culture, and could not effect any meaningful change.
That's the beauty of our free enterprise system. You can choose to be proactively involved in your own development and future and make your own decisions, or you can choose to pay someone to represent you. Personally I think you'd be better off "driving your own bus."
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