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In Reply to: I need a PC audio tutorial - I have lots of questions posted by kurt s on March 28, 2007 at 12:29:47:
No, I don't have a music server, so I don't even know what those look like. I say too many titles because if I own 1000 CD's, each with about 500 MB of data, that's 500 GB of memory needed. That's a large disc drive, even though they do exist. So do you use compression to shrink that? Probably. How do you back up 500 GB of memory? With another 500 GB drive? And how long does that take to back up? How long does it take to load up all 1000 CD's on this hard drive and set it up to begin with? And then link one room with my PC over into the next? And move back and forth to change the song? So I have to have the computer in the same room with me taking up space that I don't have in there?I figured you didn't. ANyhow, even if you did uncompressed wav files, a 500g drive is about $144 so say $300 for 2 . If you used Flac to compress, you may get it down to say 300g. Back up should be fairly easy and not too long after the initial hard drive copy (not necessary if you just want the files). YOu can set up a raid system to do this automatically, but I haven't had to resort to anything that fancy.
I am not saying that there isn't some time investment up front, but ripping goes pretty fast. Originally I was doing rips that were super paranoid and took 20-30 minutes per disk. But now, I think I could rip a lot faster and more accurate (things are better on this front than they were 3-4 years ago). It took me about a month for 200 cds using the super slow method, and only working on weekends. So far, I have ripped my collection twice, and may do so a 3rd time. Remember that I did this a long while ago, and made some decisions that were right at the time, but things change. The info is there, so those starting now, will not make the same mistakes I did. Not that I think I made any mistakes persay, just some unenlightened decisions.
While this seems like a lot, short term it is, but if you factor the time saved by not having to get up to change disks and organize things, it will definately save time over the long haul. ALso I listen to more music because I can. With a simple click, things are changed, or I can do playlists and let it random. It used to be that I would listen to the same cd for weeks because I had to get up and change disks. Now it is super easy.
As for the computer, there are 2 routes you can take:
1. "Music COmputer". THis basically involves making a silent computer and placing it in the room. Treat it as you would a regular cdp...it only plays tunes, no games, e-mail, and maybe no internet. I went this route, and the PC looks like a cross between a high end cdp, and a class A amp. CLick on the A by my moniker to see my system and picts of the pc. THe control and display is done by a wireless touch screen monitor. SO there is no running to the computer. SInce it is fanless, it is perfect in the room, and it looks like a piece of audio gear. I added a high end sound card that studios use. It has 3 balanced analog outputs, and I can use the pc as an active crossover for Bi/ tri amping. I can even do room correction and upsampling if I want. It also has a digital in and out as well as an analog in so I can connect a tuner, etc. The trick with this route, is not using it for anything but music.
2. Noisy computer in the other room. Use any old noisey computer, and a device that is wired or wirelessly networked to get audio into the hifi room. THere are some affordable devices that allow you to get your tunes accross the house to the audio room. Most people use these devices to feed a dac or just take the analog outs. THese devices usually have a display and control built in. Here is an example of such devices that start as little as $300:
http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_overview.html?
If you have a dac, just spend $600 on drives and the squeeze box, and you are in business.
Another version of this route is to connect the PC to the DAC via usb. YOu can do really long runs with a USB amplifier, and put the noisey computer in the basement. Many use pdas with blue tooth to control the PCs that are in the other room.
Many people have all the files stored on a network and just access the files from individual computers.
Either way, you save space by getting all those 1000cds out of the room. They take up way more space than a pc.
I don't have any of these problems. My careless wife has problems like that with her discs she buys for her car, but I am more organized and don't take discs out of the room. And I never bother with CD tweaks, I never heard a difference with those things. My discs are not scratched. It's easy not to scratch them.
Neither do I now that I have them stored in the music computer. But kudos to your organizational skill. I could never keep it all straight. Cds would be stacked and fall or placed in different cases.
I have to have satellite high speed that has a fair use policy whereby I can download only 175 MB of data per day before it slows down to dial-up speed. Where's the potential for me? I am having the satellite system from Hughesnet installed this Friday.
NOw, that is a problem. But, if the cd disappears, internet companies will have to start offering higher band width as everyone will need it.
You must have more than the 700 kbps high-speed than I am going to get.
Yes, I think I remember my comcast supporting speeds above 8 mbps maybe even as high as 12mbps.
You mean, for you, you don't care. To wish for the demise of an option seems ludicrous to me. It's like saying "Thank God I don't have the option of 78's anymore!" Okay, whatever.
If you have seen the future and it is better, you too would wish for things that bring the demise of the present. WHen you go the PC route, and you will one day ( there are more and more audio companies making products that are really purpose built audio computers like the Cambridge piece or the Olive or the VRS Revelation) you will remember this and ask yourself why you didn't do it sooner.
Like those paintings at the mall that change after you stare at them for 20 minutes, you can't know until you have seen it. But once you do, it is blatantly obvious. This is why I am taking the time to post.
Follow Ups:
I will have to keep this post for future reference. Thanks for the valuable information.Right now I have a new computer that I HATE. It has Windows Vista and is currently incompatible with ALL peripherals I have to go with it. It has a surround sound card (like why, I wonder? Am I really expected to sit at my computer chair to watch a surround sound movie on my 17" monitor?). The computer is fast and the operating system is slow. But you get to watch it do pretty graphics (as if I care). I just want it to work.
I had to go to satellite high speed because I could not find a Vista compatible modem, believe it or not. I was dumb enough not to buy the optional built-in modem (after all, I already had a modem), and the sales folks at HP can't even tell me what modem they use in there that really IS Vista compatible. Ah heck, time to dump my dial-up anyway.
I found out I could get Comcast high speed and all their cable services for the modest installation fee of $3900! They have to modify a telephone pole to get the cable to my house (aerial extension over a tree in my neighbor's yard). Everyone in my neighborhood gets Comcast except me because they can't string a cable to my nearby telephone pole without engineering an expensive solution. No wireless DSL in the hills where I am. The lots are one acre and bigger where I am, and full of trees in the way. Ah, but the views are nice.
I truly despise working on PC's. They should just be configured at the store to plug and play and you just go. This is never the case, it's plug and pRay. And Windows Vista (their latest beta version for all new PC owners to have) isn't ready for prime time. It doesn't even load my old Microsoft "Picture It" software, from their own damn software line! So far I have little working on that computer and am using my old Windows 98 computer until tomorrow when I change over to an Ethernet connected modem high speed. They promised they could make Vista work with their high speed satellite modem to the Ethernet connector. I'll be amazed if there's no problems.
So you can see I am not excited by the future of digital music from a computer. I am a DIY'er, and build my own amps and sometimes speakers, but PC DIY is for 8th grade geniuses. I'm just an 46-year-old EE still using vacuum tubes, some from the 1920's. (They don't make them like THAT anymore.) Whiz bang computer technology never really impresses me. I just want good sound and good music and can actually still get up to turn over a record every 20 minutes.
I think the Wintel conspiracy of speedy technological obsolescence for the sake of making max dollars is just a scam. It doesn't make my life any easier, really.
But okay, some day I will go kicking and screaming into the future! They force us. Right now I look at the PC Audio forum and everyone is talking alphabet soup. It looks like I need to go to college again to be able to hook up a modern PC audio system.
Now I'm down from my soapbox. :-)
Kurt
Kurt,I've been on DirecPC/Hughes for 7 years. If you have any questions I can probably help. You will have no problem with Vista on this setup. The satellite device is a modem/router which does DHCP (handles the in house IP addresses). Your limit is 175mb in an 4 hour sliding window. For $10 a month more you can double that. You need to get a download manager so you can either control the baud rate of the download or pause it when you get near your limit and then continue it a couple of hours later.
We do some software development here. With a couple of audio streams running,two people surfing and 10 machines running the automatic services, etc. we only hit FAP once. That was when one of the machines had gotten a piece of something that called home every couple of seconds and that traffic went over the limit. When you go over you get slowed down to 56K for the next 4 hour period. The 7000 series modems work well but with the FAP it is not suitable to download much music or video.
The reason Vista supports surround sound is the same reason for this thread, there is way too much dark fiber out there for things to go any other way.
Yes, living where you can't get good access is a pain in some respects. If I were you I would cook up a deal with a neighbor and setup a wi-fi or wi-max connection and pay part of their cable bill. If you bought the latest Hughes offering then you are tied up for 15 months. By then there might be a real public wi-max systems running in your area. I have and 1800 foot ridge between me and I-5 which is 5 miles away as the crow flies. I will be able to get DSL this summer.
Hey Kurt,I feel your pain. WHile I am competent on the computer front, I am not a genius there, and would never never never buy a 1st addition of a microsoft OS. I won't adopt it until service pack 2 shows up. I was given a mediacenter pc (1st edition) and it crashes all the time...not going that route again.
The really cool thing about a music computer is that the hardware needs are very basic. ALl this thing is going to do is run a few audio programs, and that is it. Hell, mine is not even connected to the web...it just plays music.
FWIW, Gordon Rankin of Wavelength audio has a really easy solution. BUy a mac and his usb Dac. Macs are easy to use and set up, and his Brick or Crimson has gotten great reviews. I Tunes is very easy to use they say, and you don't have any of that PC complication. I mention this because Gordon is a tube guy too, and routinely runs his pc system into highend tubes and efficient speakers.
Or you could buy a mac and use your EE skills to build a usb dac as there are kits available.
Or, here are some links to a few other products where all the heavy lifting has been done by someone else and all the benenfits of a pc based system can be realized without having to go to college:
http://www.vrsaudiosystems.com/
http://www.zerooneaudio.com/product_Ti48.htm
http://www.wavelengthaudio.com/
http://www.empiricalaudio.com/frComputer_Audio.htmlHell, if a ba in philosophy can make a pc based system, an ee is a shoe in. ALso, here is a post you might enjoy:
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/19055.html
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