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In Reply to: probably not going to happen soon posted by PSP on March 21, 2007 at 13:24:40:
Okay. Let's say I want to reproduce an orchestra. I start with the MOST possible expensive way, and that is NOT to see how much I can spend on speakers, CDP and room treatments.Method A- Presto's most expensive way:
1) Every player must play his part ALONE on the soundstage, and be recorded with the best possible microphone. (Multiple mics for orchestras instantly fail because every mic is recording every sound, just with different intensity and time delays). The mic is located at the very seat for which we want to create our "live sounding recording". (This shall be referred to as the refernce seat for later comparison of the ensemble en masse to the recorded effort).
2) Create an EXACT replica of the concert hall at home. In your... ravine... out back.
3) In the replica hall, place a phase coherent loudspeaker where EACH and every musician sat and aim it at the listening position. (Same seat as the mic was sitting in, in the REAL hall...)
4) Listen to your $1,000,000 recording on your $10,000,000 stereo!
5) Realize that you could have funded a LIFETIME of attending live concerts and had 'perfect sound' every time, or proceed to method B - where we start to compromise.
Method B- Presto's Second Most expensive way.
(Same as method A, but record musicians by group).
Method C- Presto's Third Most expensive way.
(Same as method B, but record by group and use a very large room instead of a replica hall)
Method D- Presto's Fourth Most expensive way.
(Same as method C, but record with two mics to approximate a stereo soundscape, and use a reasonable size room with room treatments.)
The point of this comical perspective?
Most of us are circling around "Method G or H". A room in a typical home with two speakers can create a wonderful and appealing soundscape, but there are too many DEVIATIONS from the original event in both the recording AND the "playback venue" for anything CLOSE to resembling the actual event to be reproduced.
I am not a frequent concert goer - but this much I have learned about "live sound": home stereos make a complete MESS of the original soundscape.
How come at home I am looking straight ahead at the perceived sound sources (or slightly upwards) when at a concert I am looking DOWNWARD at the stage?
Right off the bat, stereos LIE about the location of things, and optimizing stereos for "accurate soundstaging" when mics and mixing do 90% of the damage is a waste of time in my books.
Live music that is performed via a PA system is another matter. In that case, starting with the stereo analog sends to the amplifiers would be the best bet. Unfortunately, this is not how it's done, because in large live sound productions, the "stereo sends" are sent to active crossovers and delayed for flying speaker systems where low mid and high frequency drivers are FAR from being time coherent. So what you get on the "live" CD is a rather arbitrary (but often nice sounding) mix of the stage mics with a few snippets of "crowd noise" mixed in (only at specific times) for that added "live sound effect".
Playing a recording of a cello, guitar, or vocalist in a manageable sized room that is not excessively reverberant? We have a chance. Gettting "accurate" localisation for playback of orchestras in concert halls and live rock concerts in sports arenas?
Not buying it.
But "YMMV"!!
Follow Ups:
...because you sit much further away so dispersion must be taken into account. In actuality, looking down means you are more centered in that wave front.
Steve:I was referring to the actual stage position. Some stages (smaller venues or some front seats in certain halls) may have the listener actually looking up at the performers.
But in many cases, the listener is looking DOWN on the performance, and the soundsource seems to come from "below".
I guess one would have to close their eyes at a concert and IGNORE the musicians location to get a feel for what the "perceived" soundstage is even when a band is two tiers down.
Interesting.
In the live music case, I was biased to thinking that the soundstage must be lower, but this may not be the case at all.
A neat experiment for the next live performance I attend!!
Point taken and agreed to. I have thoroughly enjoyed the various approximations to "the live performance" that I've been able to realize in my home. My post was only to say that I think that going the whole nine yards is currently impossible in any practical way. I would love to be proven wrong (but I doubt that I could afford the resulting system).Peter
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