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In Reply to: Academia and Hip-Hip posted by musetap on March 5, 2007 at 10:28:03:
. . . classical audiences would be hugely enjoying the hyper-serial style our academic composers have purveyed lo these many years.Actual audiences formed a different opinion, and the "academic" style of composition lives on only in academia.
Now, before you go and start slinging disparaging names around for folks whose tastes differ from yours again, I ask you to consider: no matter what kind of music you adore, and no matter how legitimate or wise your reasons for adoring it are, there will be folks to can't bear it.
I urge you to learn to live with it. And I would urge those who would disparage the music you like to grant you your tastes as well. After all, it's only music.
BTW, thanks for the funk reference; I'll be on the lookout for it, so long as it isn't written from an "academic" perspective. ;-)
Follow Ups:
"Now, before you go and start slinging disparaging names around for folks whose tastes differ from yours again, I ask you to consider: no matter what kind of music you adore, and no matter how legitimate or wise your reasons for adoring it are, there will be folks to can't bear it."The key is whenever someone bashes music that you like, if you're comfortable with what you like enough to take such talk with a grain of salt.
I hear people bash my faves all the time. I view it like a great sports team being hated by rival sports fans. For those who are truly mediocre are rarely bashed. Just ignored.
"Academic approbation"? Like when you could take a humanities class at UC Santa Cruz and get credit for frisbee tossing? I just thought the article and timing were interesting in conjunction with the recent thread on the supposed decline of Hip-Hop sales and the insuing brouhaha that entailed. Really nothing more, nothing less. Recognition of Hip-Hop by the Academics probably means a lot more to some who would place a particular "value" on that than it means to me..."Now, before you go and start slinging disparaging names around for folks whose tastes differ from yours again,"
Wherein did I do that?!?! I believe you have me confused with someone else...
" I ask you to consider: no matter what kind of music you adore, and no matter how legitimate or wise your reasons for adoring it are, there will be folks to can't bear it."
I have no problem with that, it's those that are so intolerent of different forms of music and art that they refuse to recognize it AS a legitimate an art/music form, mostly just through shear biligerance accompanied with sputtering bile. BTW, I by NO MEANS adore Hip-Hop, just have enough respect for the (relatively) small portion of it that has complete and justifiable artistic merit to RATE that recognition, whether from someone as insignificant as me or any person that can appreciate music from the past several decades.
"I urge you to learn to live with it. And I would urge those who would disparage the music you like to grant you your tastes as well. After all, it's only music."
I live VERY fine with it, thank you for your concern. "It's only music" seems a rather bland way to sum up what most people partake in these boards about/for. If it was "only" methinks we would all be pursueing some other hobby/passion. Crossword puzzles perhaps? Knitting? Music is art, art inspires passion. No two (or even five or 13) ways about that! The thread below, regarding possibly paying to listen to a $100,000 system? You think people will be listening to spoken word recordings on it? Doubt it...
"BTW, thanks for the funk reference; I'll be on the lookout for it, so long as it isn't written from an "academic" perspective. ;-)"
It's a very well written and researched book, not bogged-down by an "academic perspective", and captures the vibrancy of the music while putting it into a proper historical perpective. A historical. 20th century musical perspective that many (The Deniers) in these boards seem either unfamiliar with or are just plain unwilling to acknowledge.
You , of course are not included amongst them.
"I always play jazz records backwards, they sound better that way"
-Thomas Edison
markrohr wrote:
"Now, before you go and start slinging disparaging names around for folks whose tastes differ from yours again,"musetap replied:
"Wherein did I do that?!?! I believe you have me confused with someone else..."No. I believe you have you confused with someone else. In your original post, you said:
"It won't change the ostrichs' position's, enlighten the ignorant (does anything, ever?)"
You are referring to those who disagree with your views as "ostrichs'" (sic) and "ignorant". I don't know how much clearer it gets. And then you say, in response to Mark's observation that there will always be people who hate the type of music you like:
"I live VERY fine with it, thank you for your concern."
If you lived so well with people disagreeing with your views about this type of music, you would never have made your original post to begin with. But in a thread that you originated, you're referring to those who disagree with you as "ostriches" and "ignorant", then denying that you have a problem with them. The conflict there is painfully obvious to me.
First, there were/are some pretty ignorant statements made in the FINALLY! thread I refered to. I'm not sure how to refer to ignorant statements in a manner that isn't "disparaging", but if you possibly have some way to refering to ignorant phrases, by using a term other than ignorant, you're much more PC than I, and possibly even a better person. Congratulations.I'm not refering to those that disagree with me as ostrichs'. That's what I feel is an accurate discription of someone that just plain refuses to accept something that is recognized by, well, probably tens of millions of people as something that is a legitimate entity. Hip-Hop as music is an example. Global warming is an example. Some people refuse to accept or recognize these. Ostrich is a fairly beign term to describe them, as "disparaging" as the word might seem to you, and I don't believe an inaccurate one. Denying something exists, having your head buried in the sand pretending it doesn't exist, doesn't NOT make it exist. Well, maybe to 5 year olds for a limited amount of time.
Here's a link to a post I think is pretty ignorant. You need not share my view on that, but that does NOT mean I don't think it contains much ignorance, so therefore must BE ignorant. Now, perhaps I could find a term other than ignorant to describe something that IS ignorant, but if the shoe fits, why be ignorant and ignore it?
BTW, there have been a couple posts on both this thread and the FINALLY! thread, oh, you did read that thread, right? since you're commenting on my post that refers to it? - that have "disappeared". Even you, and perhaps markrohr, might have agreed that there was, alas! ignorance present in those "disappeared" posts, and possibly in some of the remaining posts.
What you seem completely unclear about is that anyone, at any time can disagree with me and my views or opinions. I'm not at all insecure about that, it's a healthy thing that I'm fine with and it's something that makes this great place what it is an I don't "flip out" over such things. I only made my original post to state that denying that a music that is recognized as music, that fits every definition of music is music, whether the poster thinks and accepts that so or not.
Did you even read that post? Somehow I doubt it...
I may have misinterpreted makrohr's references of disparaging words in the post you reference because I really don't consider then disparaging, only accurate. So my apologies for that. If you find something else to nitpick about, just let me know and I'll be glad to address it!
"I always play jazz records backwards, they sound better that way"
-Thomas Edison
wish I could find the other one...
"I always play jazz records backwards, they sound better that way"
-Thomas Edison
I decided not to bother.
"Now, before you go and start slinging disparaging names around for folks whose tastes differ from yours again,"Your "again" had me thinking you were refering to some PREVIOUS post, since I was refering to a previous post. So, excuse my confusion there, I wasn't trying to sidestep my comments.
As regards disparaging, I've said plenty about it in my response to Andy_C in the above post. Yes, I can see where some words/names I use can be construed as disparaging. Such is life.
"I always play jazz records backwards, they sound better that way"
-Thomas Edison
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