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In Reply to: Ok, I've read... posted by mkuller on February 23, 2007 at 15:11:07:
I'm afraid I will disappoint you as I never thought these speakers were worthy of a very extended listen from me, much less a review. I could not stand listen to them for a very long time, though I was looking for new speakers at the time.As Fremer wrote, "the Silverback's silk dome won't please everyone—sometimes I felt it sounded a bit forward or 'hashy.'" That's how I felt they sounded all the time I heard them. And they were being driven with Sim Audio electronics with which I was very familiar and which could not have been responsible for what I was hearing.
To JA's credit he expresses "disappointment" with the speakers' measured performance.
Nevertheless Fremer concludes, "the DeVore Fidelity Silverback Reference is one of the most enjoyable and highest-performing speakers I've reviewed." Though he also throws in some caveats, he does toss out a lot of quotes like this that the manufacturer will no doubt use in his ads--in Stereophile.
Remember where this all originates within this thread. It is a search for indirect evidence that there is something other than speaker quality that results in great reviews.
Fremer's last quote and Stereophile's award of a Catagory "A" rating for a speaker that I couldn't abide is very strong evidence for me, at least, that something is amiss here.
Follow Ups:
> As Fremer wrote, "the Silverback's silk dome won't please everyone—sometimes I felt it sounded a bit forward or 'hashy.'" That's how I felt they sounded all the time I heard them.>At least Fremer listed a caveat for the performance area you didn't like. Many people can respectfully disagree on the treble performance of a loudspeaker.
> And they were being driven with Sim Audio electronics with which I was very familiar and which could not have been responsible for what I was hearing.>
Bad assumption. If the amp wasn't a good match with those speakers, it could sound bad no matter how it sounded with other speakers.
> To JA's credit he expresses "disappointment" with the speakers' measured performance.>
It's not unusual for a component with poor measured performance to sound good. As I said before, look at the popularity of SET amps. There isn't always a very close correlation between the two.
But even if the speakers sounded as you described - it's not unusual for two reviewers with different systems, rooms and personal listening biases to disagree on the merits of a component.
Remember back when TAS used to have comments on reviews by other reviewers - a necessary feature for thorough reviewing, IMO - there were sometimes big disagreements. I recall one back and forth comment becoming quite heated and beginning, "You ignorant slut", after the Saturday Night Live debate routine.
For you to conclude from your disagreement with Fremer that "something is amiss" is quite a stretch.
I know Fremer from his days at TAS, and while I find him very arrogant and find myself in disagreement with him at times, he has a lot of integrity and an excellent reputation to protect.
IIRC, Devore isn't even an advertiser.
You're barking up the wrong tree.
Well, we better finish this before we're pushed off the page.It's very hard to argue with an unrepentant industry shill.
--At least Fremer listed a caveat for the performance area you didn't like. Many people can respectfully disagree on the treble performance of a loudspeaker.
You asked me to find a speaker that I thought sounded like crap that had gotten a good review, caveat or not. I did that. Now you're busy arguing that perhaps it is a great speaker and/or perhaps it wasn't a great review. Some people just can't take "yes" for an answer.
--Bad assumption. If the [Sim] amp wasn't a good match with those speakers, it could sound bad no matter how it sounded with other speakers.
JA discussing the impedance curves noted this was an easy speaker to drive. A Sim should do it. In fact, one of the places I saw these speakers was at a show where, evidently, the speaker manufacturer thought this was an advantageous combination, for he used Sim amps.
--It's not unusual for a component with poor measured performance to sound good. As I said before, look at the popularity of SET amps. There isn't always a very close correlation between the two.
Yes, yes I know about tube amp measurements and harmonic distortion. But, JA takes great measurements of speakers, and IMHO if there is a measurement problem that problem can be heard. Anyway, we're talking about SPEAKERS here.
--I know Fremer from his days at TAS, and while I find him very arrogant and find myself in disagreement with him at times, he has a lot of integrity and an excellent reputation to protect.
Well, arrogant is an understatement. By the way he has addressed himself to persons on this board, to issues raised about his reviewing, and in public to others like Arthur Salvatore he doesn't engender a great deal of personal respect and presumed integrity around here. He is generally writing reviews no different in kind from those at the webzines, and as I have written, quite different from those of the Pearson era. And apparently you don't get to review $45M speakers--with the opportunity to buy them at about 1/2 price--if you're known for panning speakers.
In any event when a speaker sounds as terrible as this one (and confirmed in this opinion by others on this board) and is reviewed to be "one of the most enjoyable and highest-performing speakers I've reviewed," and measures so poorly and then is given a Class A rating, yes, I do think something is amiss.
--IIRC, Devore isn't even an advertiser. You're barking up the wrong tree.
DeVore takes space at Stereophile-Primedia shows. That's advertising. Woof, woof!
Cheers,
Mel
"It's very hard to argue with an unrepentant industry shill."
I'll generally agree with that one, but I find it's more like trying to teach a pig to sing, it's waste of time and it annoys the pig.
d.b.
...it's difficult to have a discussion with someone with a closed, narrow mind.Regarding speaker measurements and performance - take a look at AHC's review of the Krell LAT-1000 speaker in the February TAS.
He mentions that these speaker do not measure flat, but that because of that, rather than in spite of it, they sound much more like live music to him than many other speakers with flatter measurements.
Measurement, even of loudspeakers, do not always correlate well with their performance.
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