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In Reply to: You continue to miss the point. I'm talking *useless eaters*, not... posted by clarkjohnsen on February 16, 2007 at 09:38:30:
I probably wouldn't have a chance in your little shop of horrors. I've purchase twice from dealers in recent times, once from the subject of honor here and once from a dealer who was recommended by the manufacturer though he was still 150 miles away. I was given the hard sell by KD, "If I give you a price are you ready to buy right now?" Had a problem with it right away and guess what, had to pay to have it shipped for warranty work. Ok we have to have a thick skin. The other, who had little time invested because I purchased by phone and it was drop shipped to my house by the manufacturer, referred all questions to said manufacturer. Both of these buys left a bad taste.I've lost count of the number of purchases I've made online, only had one bad buy and it was made right by the seller.
Do you think one just wakes up one day in their midlife and says, "gee now that I can afford it I think I'll plunk down 10, 20, 30k on a stereo"? I doubt it. Many, I think worked their way up the chain and along the way got banged up a little by being qualified and ignored by salesmen who didn't have time to answer newbee questions because well our time is just too damned important. So we (I) found another way...the internet much like Colt...the great equalizer. Research it online, you can't tell what it should really sound like in a shop any way. Buy it online, I've had to go the manufacturer for help in both my experiences anyway, and when you get ready to sell it's back to the internet where you'll get true market value.
Are you still wondering where your customers are going?
I did have a very positive experience when I was starting out many years ago. An area furniture store, very old building with plastic draped where it rained in, had a small cramped area packed with audio. No advertising just word of mouth led me here. The proprietor was an elderly gentleman who'd had a stroke, his left arm in a sling, eagerly and graciously introduced me to hifi. The twinkle in his eye was enough to convey his love for the hoby. I could have listened all day if I wished. I bought two whole systems from him, had to borrow every cent of it. I'm sure glad he didn't qualify that long-haired kid with acne and holes in his jeans. Sorry to run on but I'd just like to remind you that if you give everyone a chance maybe some will surprise you, if not today perhaps tomorrow.
Follow Ups:
Quote by asubdud"""I was given the hard sell by KD, "If I give you a price are you ready to buy right now?" Had a problem with it right away and guess what, had to pay to have it shipped for warranty work."""
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My policy is better than most anyone in the industry. We exchange truly defective product in the first 30 days if it a product we still carry. Most dealers don't do it in the first week, or even day.
And we typically handle shipping during that period. So what I want from you is your name then we will look up your purchase and subsequent "problem"
If true I'll cut you the check. So let's see it.
"My policy is better than most anyone in the industry. We exchange truly defective product in the first 30 days if it a product we still carry. Most dealers don't do it in the first week, or even day."No dealer I've dealt with (or know something about) in the NYC/NJ area would refuse to exchange a defective product in the first week, let alone day. How could a dealer who refuses to do that even stay in biz for a week?
After looking at my records it wasn't right away as I recollected, it was 5 months from purchase to repair. I'm sorry for making that mistake. I stand by the rest of my statement. The point that I wanted to make is that you were rude and I see many references to your rudeness. Im sure it was fun for you at one time maybe you could regain that somehow.Kevin, no one wants to see you harmed here. I want choices and UA is a damned good one but I won't spend what I consider serious money where it's not appreciated.
When you buy it used, and it breaks.....I'm suddenly a great guy------------------------------------------------------
hello kevin,
you come highly recommended... from just about everyone.I am having a problem with my unico...
the left channel will be there one second and then fade to nothing...
a second passes and the come back in.
it could be something as easy as changing a tube.. but i don't know...I then have a Macintosh 6100 that seems to be really soft in the left
channel.
again... I don't know. In stereo it's noticeable, and in L to RL it
is horriblewould this be something you could help with?
thank you in advance...
(name deleted)
What makes you sure this guy didn't send a similar email to a dozen dealers, hoping to hit the jackpot somewhere?Yeah, it makes him a cheeseball probably, but that doesn't make you the One True Savior of all things audio.
I'm sure you told him to eff off.
You really need to excavate that large chip on your shoulder and start READING what people on this thread have to say. Too many negative stories, too many criticisms of your style, too many to ignore. I don't recall seeing this sort of thing about any of your contemporaries who enjoy national fame (and notoriety, as in subject at hand) among the audio cognoscenti.
There are several of those who enjoy a great reputation across the country and on these boards... Wally, Bill Baker, Venus, Galen Carol, to name only a few. Every one of my locals in Atlanta is extremely gracious and usually generous with his/her time (the fine lady at Audio Alternative being an example of the women in audio, few in total, who work extra hard to earn their stripes in this male-dominated field - but that's another story).
We don't see vituperation about them here, don't hear about them telling their customers to get effed. I have dealt with several of them and they are always courteous and helpful, even on the occasions I told them upfront (ie, the first thing after 'Hello') that I wasn't likely to buy from them this time but was just needing a question answered. Guess what? They obliged, without using any effing eff words. 'Obliged' being a key term here. One day, I hope to return the favor to each of them by voting with my dollars, and have already done so with several.
Judging solely from your spelling and grammar, you did not have the benefit of a good education. Judging from your manners, you did not have the benefit of a good upbringing either. I suppose pointing this out may be bad manners in itself, but my folks would probably pardon my making this exception.
For you to say the following"Judging solely from your spelling and grammar, you did not have the benefit of a good education. Judging from your manners, you did not have the benefit of a good upbringing either. I suppose pointing this out may be bad manners in itself, but my folks would probably pardon my making this exception."
When you know nothing of my character, of of me personally, is a bit much. I don't get the obsession you have but don't need to. But I will tell you at the end of the day....you won't feel better about yourself for slamming people....be that the case.I make the decisions here, and stand behind, and in person made ammends to people when needed. But not because KKC told me to.
Though I'm open to suggestions. See...I operate like an open book. I don't push people toward sales....in fact the opposite.But with all that in mind I have a great time with customers I can say I love, my business is successful enough that I no longer need to work and that gives me the luxury of saying no to the people I was once forced to say yes to out of desperation to make my next house payment. Now we are the #1 U.S.A. dealer for a few major brands, pay our bills early and enjoy a good reputation....though I don't think this forum, any more than rec.audio.opinion is a place I measure our success.
Now I pay my employees fair, supply benefits like health insurance, and a profit sharing plan I fund for them 100%, and and have made sacrifices for the love of my life. Mistakes here and there? Sure. Basics in place the way I want them? Yes.
...so be it. I won't be responsible for your smarmy analogies, nor endorse them.I once called you to ask about the ASL items you had on your sales page. I was ready to pull the trigger on an integrated there. Almost immediately, you launched into a diatribe about how poor their QC was and that I would be much better off buying a Primaluna (for which, it's interesting, you have no USA-based dealer competition). You ended by calling the ASL brand 'shit'.
My head was spinning as I hung up. Why would you bother to list/advertise for sale items that you yourself would call 'shit'? (Whether they are or not is immaterial; don't bother going there. The point I am making here is that you advertise them and then criticize them. I suppose you call this 'classy', in your own peculiar brand of street lingo).
It was a short check from there to find out that you had once been a dealer for ASL but the relationship ended badly. These were your leftover inventory that ASL would not take back, and rather than donate the 'shit' to the junkyard, you decided to let your customers have them. Or... is this bait and switch on your part? I notice, more than a year later, all the same ASL items (or nearly all of them) are still on your sales page. What's happening there? Do you like people to call about the brand just so you can tell them it's 'shit' and steer them to a product that only you sell in this market?
You still don't get the point, and I agree with clio09 that you never will. No matter how many audiophiles, manufacturers and fellow dealers post here in general disapprobation of your techniques, you will remain, in the worst sense of the word, an original. Just not with my dollars (I know, I know, you are/were successful, you don't need them, you don't need to work, blah blah. So when's the retirement party?)
Problems with the ASL stuff were so widespread that I put those disclaimers about all sales final. I wanted them to go to guy that knew their way around a circuit board. If I were a dirtbag, the first thing I would do is take your money...not sit of stuff for three or four years.I bought three pairs of Hurricanes as my last purchase and asked the importer directly if they were problematic. He said they had some isues, but it was fixed now. At the same time the EL-34 amp they shipped in their last delivery had a problem. If you used a new old stock 12AU7 in place of the stock JJ 12AU7.....EL-34 in the #3 position would run away. And the last shipment of headphone amps needed a grid-stop resistor installed because they woul oscillate.
So here I am with these three pair of Hurricanes. I stopped selling all of it. There was no PrimaLuna at the time I made the decision, and in fact I said "no" to even the idea of PrimaLuna because I didn't think it could be done right. I had enough with Chinese stuff that didn't work.
So the expediant thing to do is tell everyone it's great...get my money, and run. Is that what I should have done? The three pairs of Hurricanes were here for years because I would warn people they should not be "beginners". So tell me the truth now that you know the facts.....what kind of person does this make me?
So I warned people as hard and honestly as I could, and that can be mis-read. Of those three pairs of monoblocs......all three failed. So I made no money, was at least true to myself, but the customer is left holding the bag.
How would you handle it?
I accept your explanation of the circumstances. I too am aware of the QC issues ASL has had (was not aware when I called you, but within a couple of days of that my research dug that up).If you had taken, say, a minute more to explain: "Mr Customer: (copy your text above here, or most of it). And that is why I'd rather see you buy something with good QC." That would have been better than summarily calling them 'shit' and saying not much else. After all, you cannot assume that I, or anyone else, automatically knows what you mean by that.
You can be a consumer advocate (the role you claim to have taken on above, and which, in good faith, I accept that you intended) while still maintaining decorum and respect for the customer's sensibilities. In other words, don't treat people like they are know-nothings and would not understand a basic explanation like the above.
I also maintain that continuing to list the poor items for sale is puzzling, and duplicity may or may not be among the reasons for doing so. I cannot tell you how to run your business, but if it were me and the calls were taking up my time to the extent that it hurt my business (how this thread got started in the first place), I would talk to my accountant of donating these to some sort of auction where they would be sold as is, no recourse, but at a significantly lower price to a buyer who knows his way around a circuit board. My 'benefit' would then become the tax writeoff and the savings in time and headache that finally dumping that stuff would get me.
As I stated, your continuing to keep the items there in light of your and my comments above is what is questionable.
You have explained your POV, I have explained mine. They don't have to coincide.
nt
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