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In Reply to: move on over to the pc audio forum posted by hermanesque on March 19, 2007 at 17:11:46:
Herman is being VERY kind in the following statement:"Many feel it is unethical or immoral copy to a CD and then sell it but others don’t. Some feel it is illegal, others don’t."
What you are talking about Creativepart IS immoral, unethical and ILLEGAL! I'm not trying to pass judgement on you but if you did not know that you are infringing on each copyright, you do now.
1200 counts of copyright infringement would cary a fine that you can not imagine. If they chose to pursue the case, you would be out 6 figures with defense expenses. We can all rip cd's till our hearts are content......for our OWN enjoyment but the copyright TRAVELS with the original work. Sell the cd, sell your rights to the recorded material.
I for one want the musicians and artists I enjoy to make money. That is their work, we enjoy it, they deserve payment. No intent to offend or shame you, you were probably just unaware. Peace.
Follow Ups:
Please show me the relevant law concerning this I'm willing to be educated as I'm not trying to be a blatant offender -- if in fact you can show me where this is detailed.No one has responded to any of my arguements or pointed to any legal restrictions. Just said, "this is wrong."
http://www.safetyed.org/help/alert/copying.html
http://www.teamcombooks.com/mp3handbook/5.htm (read case #1's last sentence)
There's lots more out there. Use Google. Of course lots of this is subject to interpretation, but I think these have nailed the essence of the issue.
I was originally in the opposite camp but now agree with ghasley. However, just as he is positive that he is right, if you have nothing to do you can follow the attached link where many people argue that it is perfectly OK to copy and sell the disc.
I purchased the digital rights for personal use and paid the royalties to the artists, publishers and everyone involved with my 1,200 CDs. As a legal end user I can do with them as I wish. I can burn them, bury them -- do anything I wish with them because once I buy them, they are mine to do with as I please. And as the legal owner of the copyrighted materials I am permitted by law to make a personal backup of the content for my use.I do know that it would be illegal to copy them and sell the copies to others -- or to give away copies to others. But the original CDs, all paid for and legal can be given away or bartered or sold.
Is it legal for the used CD store to sell them? I don't know the answer to that question. But, that is not my concern. I do not believe that these stores have ever been prosecuted for doing so. If there is anything illegal about that type of business transaction it would be on the part of the Used CD Store redistributing the content. Not on my part for selling them my personal property.
I do recognize that there is a seeming gray area here. Some may want to make this type of action illegal, but I do not believe that it is at this time.
I do not believe that any laws exist that require me to destroy any backed up content if I no longer possess the CDs. Think about that. If what you are suggesting is correct then if I bought a CD and made a back up for myself, as is my right, and then lost my CD at some point in the future, I would have to, by law, destroy my back up. Obviously, this can't be correct.
I could be wrong or simply ignorant of the applicable laws. But if you think this through I think you'll see that it is not at all the same crime as file sharing. It may seem to be at first, but it is much more complex an issue than that.
Keeping a backup of an original that you sell is not a right you originally purchased. Look, I'm not saying I have never done it. But I live up to the knowledge that it isn't right or legal.
Creativepart, you seem like a nice guy and appear to truly be in search of knowledge here, so I will do my best to help.If you make a backup copy or two or three.....that has been tested in the courts and your right as a non-commercial consumer have been upheld. What you are suggesting is that you are selling the original and keeping your backup as a main. When you sell or give away the original, you are assigning your rights to the copyright. Not negotiable! In your post you mention losing the original. The courts have asserted the backup copy was for your use and you are well withing your rights. Additionally, you did not transfer title!
Let me make this clear: as a purchaser of the copyright, you have no authority whatsoever to split or assign the copyright at will. You agreed to the contrary upon purchase. If you transfer title to the original, the copyright moves with it. Your copy then becomes illegal....PERIOD. Again, I believe you are searching for a way to make something very wrong at least partially right, but it just doesn't work that way.
Let's say you have a band, write some original songs, record your cd and the album gets some radio play. The somebody buys 1 cd, backs it up, sells it to somebody else, they back it up and so on down the line. How would you get paid? You would have sold one cd and multiple people would be enjoying the fruits of your labor. How fair would that be?
You have asked for truth and you got it. Any further discussion about right and wrong on this issue will reveal to all your intent. Peace.
I understand what you are stating regarding the legal issues here.Please assume the following situation:
1. Someone purchases a CD from Amazon.com
2. A backup copy is made, either to a hard drive or to CD-R
3. The original CD is sold to a used CD store - the backup copy, under the law, is now illegal.
4. Sometime later, the person regrets selling the original CD, maybe because the booklet had some great information, or they are unhappy with the quality of their backup copy (reason does not really matter), so they go online again and purchase the same CD again from Amazon.com.
Now is the original backup copy still illegal, since the source CD for the backup copy was sold to a used CD store? Would the person have to make a backup copy of the new CD in order to have a legal copy?
Jim,Nice question. The backup is legal in your highly unlikely example. Technically speaking however, you were breaking the law during the time where you had just the backup but I'm sure you wouldn't have listened to it. ;)
My only comment or response is that if the copyright laws are as you say, then you, I and virtually every other single person in the civilized world is in violation of this law to varying degrees. We've all made copies of our LPs, Cassettes, CDs and etc and then lost, threw away, sold or other wise passed title of the content to others without going back and diligently destroying the copy that we made previously.
HowdyIf I give away a disk, book, sheet music, or whatever, I also destroy or give to the same person all backups I have of that material. It's just common sense... let alone the moral and legal thing to do.
On the other hand if the original is destroyed in my possession I use my backups with good conscience.
.
nt.
I've ripped all of my CDs for use on a music server, but I keep them around (stored in boxes) to ensure that I'm the legal owner of the copyright.
I would keep them only in case my hard drive crashed.
I should say I have some unpaid speeding + parking tickeks but I like living on the edge!
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