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I know I'm not alone in this thinking. Recently, I started selling some of my CDs. I had about 1200 and I don't listen to more than 300 or so of them really. So, I sold about 400 at a Used CD store and got about $250. I started thinking. If I bought a Mac Mini, ripped the remaining 800 CDs to the mini (80 gig version) in Apple Lossless format I could probably sell the rest of my CDs and break even.Then, I'd sill have all of my CDs on the HD and I could listen to 'em when ever I wanted to just fine. Heck, maybe they'd sound better from the mini with a USB DAC and all. I could always burn a hard copy if I needed one.
Plus, I'd free up tons of storage space.
As long as iTunes sells their music in MP3, I'm not interested in buying from them. But I could see buying new CDs as new ones come out and after ripping them to the Mac Mini, I could just resell the new CD.
OK, I'm not going to break even, but, it would reduce my overall investment in CDs. Yes?
I'm thinking that if a slow guy like me can see this that it won't be long before nobody wants these CDs I've got on two big dedicated shelves in my office.
Anyone else seeing this as the way to go?
Follow Ups:
800+ cd's will fill a 250gig drive in apple lossless. Compression is only about 50%.I did this recently buy buying a used G3 ibook for $250 (check www.geeks.com) and two external 250gig drives. This works great with OS10.3 and iTunes 6 for a dedicated music jukebox.
After spending over 100 hours ripping my 750 or so CD's to one drive, I did not want to go through it again so I got the second drive for backup. The second drive is nice and safe in a drawer at my parents house.Cheers
A hard drive contains moving parts, manufactured to extremely close tolerances.There's no guarantee that a hard drive, stored in a drawer, will even spin up after a few years.
If you truly value the data, I would encourage you to seek other forms of backup.
Trust me on this. You don't really want to experience that sinking feeling when you switch on an old drive, and hear a grinding noise followed by loud clicking sounds.
I have a Samsung hard drive that has been running for 10 years now. Not so unreliable (but it is a bit small now...only 4.3Gb).
that have moved to or are in the process of moving to hard disk based backup of critical enterprise data.
I worked as a consultant for a hardware vendor for nearly ten years (this was a while ago).A lot of companies do very silly things, and then get burned for it.
People have been fired for really dumb backup strategies, but its a small consolation compared to the cost of lost data and productivity.
I could probably tell you a few horror stories, including a company that had to rebuild their data warehouse from scratch, or a company that couldn't restore from tape because they forgot to backup their tape catalog, tapes that refuse to load because the replacement drive has different firmware, RAID controller failures that wiped out entire arrays ...
"hard disk based backup of critical enterprise data" is an oxymoron. If it was really that critical, you wouldn't rely on just hard disks. I know of at least half a dozen companies that have learnt this, the hard way (one of them was the company that had to rebuild their data warehouse from scratch).
Industry trends would indicate that your concerns are off base.Yes, companies do stupid things. When 100,000 companies do the same "stupid" thing, then maybe it's not so stupid.
For home media libraries hard disk backup is quickly becoming the _only_ feasible backup mechanism. The cost of a tape backup system to backup that amount of data is prohibitive for home use.
The typical home user won't be able to manage the hundreds of 9GB DVD-R disks that it takes to backup a multi-terabyte library. Not to mention the labor involved. It's right back to the days when we shuffled dozens of floppy disks in and out of drives, marking them meticulously, and doing it again the next time. It's such a pain in the ass that many people will not backup regularly, and _that's_ the greatest concern when it comes to backups.
If you're really worried about your disk backups failing, make two backups. Keep one offsite. In a firesafe vault. Under 24x7 armed guard. Whatever...
Where does your "100,000" come from, and when you say "industry trend" can you actually cite your sources?Hmm, I don't recall Gartner, or Forrester, or anyone citing off line hard disk backups as a "trend". I can definitely say it's not a "trend" amongst the Fortune 500.
And if you speak to storage vendors like EMC or IBM, they definitely do NOT recommend that you keep hard disks in "storage", even if they are temperature and humidity controlled (or under "armed guard"). If you do want to use hard disks for secondary storage, keep them online - at least you will *know* when they fail.
As for my concerns being "off base", all I'm pointing out is that hard disks don't last forever, offline or online. If you truly value your data, you need to to take that into account. If you don't, hey, I don't care.
"vettracer"'s "solution" of asking his/her mother to fire up his/her backup hard disk every now and then is not a bad one (provided she actually does it, and does a full hard disk scan each time). The important difference between this strategy and his/her previous strategy (just keeping it in a drawer), is that he/she will *know* when it fails, and take appropriate action (buy a replacement).
I can believe that, mechanical things usually do not like to sit.I will have my mom plug it into her PC and let it spin regularly. The chance that both drives die at the same time is very slim.
Thanks
I agree that Hard Drives are unreliable.Right now I have my FLAC files on wo hard drives but would really like to have them somewhere where I dont have to worry about them.
vital ital has a very good point. Seeing my daughter's new HP laptop's hard drive crash & burn only a few months after buying it for her was sobering. She did not back up her iTunes, and I dropped about $200 to recover her data. For sure, use archive quality DVD-Rs, like Mistsui or Taiyo Yuden. Store them in quality cases, in a climate-controlled environment (not too hot or humid). I would go further and make 2 of each, in case one fails. I would also date them, and reburn them every 5 years or so. For the low cost (both of time and money) involved, it's worth it, IMO.
There are plenty of others out there doing it with various computer + internal and/or external hard drive storage + backup solutions + USB Dac or some other DAC that can interface to the computer.Many feel it is unethical or immoral copy to a CD and then sell it but others don’t. Some feel it is illegal, others don’t.
What you seek is in the PC Audio forum. Lots to learn but a Mac Mini is definitely an easy way to start and it has some inherent advantages although not the cheapest solution.
Go to the Wavelength audio and Empirical audio web sites for a good discussion of the basics.
Unethical or immoral? Yes, maybe that *is* a matter of "feel" -- and one that each one of us is permitted to feel out for himself. And that, in turn, is going to depend entirely on whether you or I feel that record companies should be reimbursed for their business efforts, that artists should earn royalties on their creations, etc.Illegal? Sorry, but that is decidedly *not* a matter of "feel." That is a matter of law to be decided by our federal courts -- including our Supreme Court (starting with its Sony Betamax decision 25 years ago and continuing right up through its Grokster/StreamCast decision of a couple years' ago). Granted, these decisions arise in technically different contexts and factual circumstances; but, they're all members of the same family: and copyright infringement -- like theft -- is not, at bottom, a legal issue that requires a lot of mental heavy lifting.
My observation: it strikes me that this whole thread is built around the entirely artificial distinction between who winds up with the original of a work and who winds up with its copy. Would anyone care to argue that it would be non-infringing for me to buy a CD and to rip and sell copies of it -- all the while keeping the original? Of course not, right? So, what's the difference? Why would a surprising (to me) number of you jump to my defense were I to rip a copy of a CD to keep for myself and to sell the original? At the end of both scenarios, we wind up in exactly the same place: with one purchased work and more than one end user of it. What difference does the "who's who?" spin on it make?
Herman is being VERY kind in the following statement:"Many feel it is unethical or immoral copy to a CD and then sell it but others don’t. Some feel it is illegal, others don’t."
What you are talking about Creativepart IS immoral, unethical and ILLEGAL! I'm not trying to pass judgement on you but if you did not know that you are infringing on each copyright, you do now.
1200 counts of copyright infringement would cary a fine that you can not imagine. If they chose to pursue the case, you would be out 6 figures with defense expenses. We can all rip cd's till our hearts are content......for our OWN enjoyment but the copyright TRAVELS with the original work. Sell the cd, sell your rights to the recorded material.
I for one want the musicians and artists I enjoy to make money. That is their work, we enjoy it, they deserve payment. No intent to offend or shame you, you were probably just unaware. Peace.
Please show me the relevant law concerning this I'm willing to be educated as I'm not trying to be a blatant offender -- if in fact you can show me where this is detailed.No one has responded to any of my arguements or pointed to any legal restrictions. Just said, "this is wrong."
Thanks!
http://www.safetyed.org/help/alert/copying.html
http://www.teamcombooks.com/mp3handbook/5.htm (read case #1's last sentence)
There's lots more out there. Use Google. Of course lots of this is subject to interpretation, but I think these have nailed the essence of the issue.
I was originally in the opposite camp but now agree with ghasley. However, just as he is positive that he is right, if you have nothing to do you can follow the attached link where many people argue that it is perfectly OK to copy and sell the disc.
I purchased the digital rights for personal use and paid the royalties to the artists, publishers and everyone involved with my 1,200 CDs. As a legal end user I can do with them as I wish. I can burn them, bury them -- do anything I wish with them because once I buy them, they are mine to do with as I please. And as the legal owner of the copyrighted materials I am permitted by law to make a personal backup of the content for my use.I do know that it would be illegal to copy them and sell the copies to others -- or to give away copies to others. But the original CDs, all paid for and legal can be given away or bartered or sold.
Is it legal for the used CD store to sell them? I don't know the answer to that question. But, that is not my concern. I do not believe that these stores have ever been prosecuted for doing so. If there is anything illegal about that type of business transaction it would be on the part of the Used CD Store redistributing the content. Not on my part for selling them my personal property.
I do recognize that there is a seeming gray area here. Some may want to make this type of action illegal, but I do not believe that it is at this time.
I do not believe that any laws exist that require me to destroy any backed up content if I no longer possess the CDs. Think about that. If what you are suggesting is correct then if I bought a CD and made a back up for myself, as is my right, and then lost my CD at some point in the future, I would have to, by law, destroy my back up. Obviously, this can't be correct.
I could be wrong or simply ignorant of the applicable laws. But if you think this through I think you'll see that it is not at all the same crime as file sharing. It may seem to be at first, but it is much more complex an issue than that.
Keeping a backup of an original that you sell is not a right you originally purchased. Look, I'm not saying I have never done it. But I live up to the knowledge that it isn't right or legal.
Creativepart, you seem like a nice guy and appear to truly be in search of knowledge here, so I will do my best to help.If you make a backup copy or two or three.....that has been tested in the courts and your right as a non-commercial consumer have been upheld. What you are suggesting is that you are selling the original and keeping your backup as a main. When you sell or give away the original, you are assigning your rights to the copyright. Not negotiable! In your post you mention losing the original. The courts have asserted the backup copy was for your use and you are well withing your rights. Additionally, you did not transfer title!
Let me make this clear: as a purchaser of the copyright, you have no authority whatsoever to split or assign the copyright at will. You agreed to the contrary upon purchase. If you transfer title to the original, the copyright moves with it. Your copy then becomes illegal....PERIOD. Again, I believe you are searching for a way to make something very wrong at least partially right, but it just doesn't work that way.
Let's say you have a band, write some original songs, record your cd and the album gets some radio play. The somebody buys 1 cd, backs it up, sells it to somebody else, they back it up and so on down the line. How would you get paid? You would have sold one cd and multiple people would be enjoying the fruits of your labor. How fair would that be?
You have asked for truth and you got it. Any further discussion about right and wrong on this issue will reveal to all your intent. Peace.
I understand what you are stating regarding the legal issues here.Please assume the following situation:
1. Someone purchases a CD from Amazon.com
2. A backup copy is made, either to a hard drive or to CD-R
3. The original CD is sold to a used CD store - the backup copy, under the law, is now illegal.
4. Sometime later, the person regrets selling the original CD, maybe because the booklet had some great information, or they are unhappy with the quality of their backup copy (reason does not really matter), so they go online again and purchase the same CD again from Amazon.com.
Now is the original backup copy still illegal, since the source CD for the backup copy was sold to a used CD store? Would the person have to make a backup copy of the new CD in order to have a legal copy?
Thanks,
Jim
Jim,Nice question. The backup is legal in your highly unlikely example. Technically speaking however, you were breaking the law during the time where you had just the backup but I'm sure you wouldn't have listened to it. ;)
Regards
My only comment or response is that if the copyright laws are as you say, then you, I and virtually every other single person in the civilized world is in violation of this law to varying degrees. We've all made copies of our LPs, Cassettes, CDs and etc and then lost, threw away, sold or other wise passed title of the content to others without going back and diligently destroying the copy that we made previously.
HowdyIf I give away a disk, book, sheet music, or whatever, I also destroy or give to the same person all backups I have of that material. It's just common sense... let alone the moral and legal thing to do.
On the other hand if the original is destroyed in my possession I use my backups with good conscience.
-Ted
.
nt.
I've ripped all of my CDs for use on a music server, but I keep them around (stored in boxes) to ensure that I'm the legal owner of the copyright.
I would keep them only in case my hard drive crashed.
I should say I have some unpaid speeding + parking tickeks but I like living on the edge!
Why not do the math and see if it would be better to sell your cd collection on ebay, it is strange when i see some of the cds in my collection being sold for 30-50 buck cuz they are out of print...Anyway, if you do, be sure to back up EVERYTHING on really good archive quality dvds.
Good luck,
v.i.
Million miles from home.
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