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I’m somewhat confused as to which mod upgrade path I should next take. My first attempt at an upgrade occurred 4 years ago with the addition of a Musical Fidelity X-24K DAC. I noticed a little difference to the sound. A deeper extended bass, and a definite deeper soundstage.
In the last month I modded my ageing Sony cdp502ES ll player with an Audiocom mk IV clock upgrade and replaced the capacitors/electrolytes with black gates. The resulting sound was truly remarkable to say the least. If the first upgrade was measured as a 10/10 then the new upgrade is truly a 100; I now find myself wanting more of this!! Everything is better….by HUGE amounts.What I have noticed is that the DAC no longer makes any difference to the modded player’s superb sound; which brings me to my query.
1. Why does the DAC no longer have any effect to the sound, seeing that the jitter free source signal now has to pass via the DAC’s clock?
2. Now that I have such a fabulous source signal, would adding a DSP such as the GW Labs http://www.gw-labs.com/products/gwdsp.html sampler capable of upsampling to 96kHz, between the player and DAC provide even better results?
3. Or should I sell the (now redundant?) DAC and upgrade yet again to the Audiocom mk V clock and upgrade the cd player’s power supply?
I would welcome any thoughts or suggestions from the more experienced modders. However, please try not to be too technical.
Follow Ups:
"I’m somewhat confused as to which mod upgrade path I should next take. My first attempt at an upgrade occurred 4 years ago with the addition of a Musical Fidelity X-24K DAC. I noticed a little difference to the sound. A deeper extended bass, and a definite deeper soundstage.
In the last month I modded my ageing Sony cdp502ES ll player with an Audiocom mk IV clock upgrade and replaced the capacitors/electrolytes with black gates. The resulting sound was truly remarkable to say the least. If the first upgrade was measured as a 10/10 then the new upgrade is truly a 100; I now find myself wanting more of this!! Everything is better….by HUGE amounts."Careful.... You may believe a little differently in a couple months. (As I've often experienced with upgrades.) But hopefully, your satisfaction will be sustained.
"What I have noticed is that the DAC no longer makes any difference to the modded player’s superb sound; which brings me to my query."
I'm not sure if you mean the internal DAC or an outboard DAC. The good DAC is always requisite in good sound.
"1. Why does the DAC no longer have any effect to the sound, seeing that the jitter free source signal now has to pass via the DAC’s clock?"
The DAC does play a role in sonics. It looks like you have a good one. What makes you think it doesn't, may I ask?
"2. Now that I have such a fabulous source signal, would adding a DSP such as the GW Labs http://www.gw-labs.com/products/gwdsp.html sampler capable of upsampling to 96kHz, between the player and DAC provide even better results?"
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For two reasons. 1. If it ain't broke.... 2. 24/96 upsampling is in my opinion the single biggest technological fraud that has taken place in audio since the introduction of the compact disc.
"3. Or should I sell the (now redundant?) DAC and upgrade yet again to the Audiocom mk V clock and upgrade the cd player’s power supply?"
Don't have a clue for an answer. But I'd audition something as close to the upgrade version as possible. With digital playback, it's more often a gamble than anything else.
You may want to try some competitive products to make sure you really like what you're hearing. You could have a gem whose best upgrade is no upgrade.
I wish to thank all of you for taking time to reply and offering your advice. I apologise should I not have been clear in my original post.The DAC I mention is an outboard Musical Fidelity X-24K. Since I received my modded Sony CDP, I notice no discernable difference whether I connect the outboard DAC or not.
Should I notice any difference?, considering prior to the clock CDP upgrade, there was a marked difference when the CDP was connected to the DAC.
My ‘logic’ informs me the outboard DAC should now be producing even superior sound, seeing as it now has a far better/clearer signal to convert. Is my ‘logic’ flawed here?
Thank you also, for pointing out that these costly upgrades are being made to an ageing Sony CDP from the early‘80’s and that I should consider there is the possibility something such as the laser could fail.
The 80’s Sony ES range, were built like battleships, utilising a solid copper chassis. Thus, my choice of updating the clock, electrolytes and caps as opposed to buying a new modern CD player, which would have cost far more than the £550.00 ($1k), I spent on the upgrade to deliver the same sound.Audiocom were amazed at the hidden potential locked within the CDP’s transport.
After reading your replies, one thing I have decided, and that is not to go the DSP 24/96 upsampler route.
"The DAC I mention is an outboard Musical Fidelity X-24K. Since I received my modded Sony CDP, I notice no discernable difference whether I connect the outboard DAC or not."Are you using the DAC's output or the player's output? If the latter, there should be virtually no difference.
"Should I notice any difference?, considering prior to the clock CDP upgrade, there was a marked difference when the CDP was connected to the DAC.
My ‘logic’ informs me the outboard DAC should now be producing even superior sound, seeing as it now has a far better/clearer signal to convert. Is my ‘logic’ flawed here?"It could be a separate signal line where the no such upgrade was applied. One would have to look at your player to find out for sure.
"After reading your replies, one thing I have decided, and that is not to go the DSP 24/96 upsampler route."
If one breaks down how an asynchronous upsampler works, it transforms jitter into noise. And I suspect the noise is what makes such playback so fatiguing to me.
You've got an old '80s era Sony there with a 16-bit non-oversampling DAC. Some folks really covet the NOS DACs (such as TDA1541 used in Zanden), so maybe it's a sleeper. Power upgrades in the CDP could further improve it. The SC responds well to better power source such as dedicated Audiocom 12V power supply or 12V batteries. These pieces could be ported over to a new CDP if yours goes belly up.
..once this is addressed then you will see that the DACs matter very less. Changing the power supply in the player will surely make it sound better. Even the clock might make a difference. Get better interconnects.
Jitter-reduction devices unless they use a memory buffer do not make much of a difference when the source jitter spec by itself is very good (mostlikely in your case).
1. my guess: the clock mod reduced jitter, but that's only for the player and the digital out: you still have jitter induced by the cable and a possibly inferior clock in the MF d/a.2. my guess: no, and it would introduce more opportunity for jitter.
3. probably yes. problem is, if the laser assembly goes dead at some point, you've got all this money in mods with a transport that doesn't work and is no longer made. but that's a general problem and not one specific to your machine (except that your sony is a bit older than average)
Ps I am not a modder just try to inform myself about these things through among other things regularly checking in on this thread.
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