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In Reply to: Ayre CX-7e CD player - first impressions. posted by kurt s on February 8, 2007 at 08:15:59:
I'm glad you're enjoying the Ayre. I had an older Ayre CX7 -- the last one that came out before the e-upgrade. I traded in that machine for the C5-xe player but later sold that one too. Both models seem to do Redbook well, and I wouldn't quibble with the analogue-like nature of the presentation -- I guess in some ways it's more like vinyl compared to a lot of CD players, and also seemed to make some CDs that sounded harsh on other players that I had owned more "tolerable." Having said this, and I realize that in some circles it may not be fashionable to critique a player (or players, if you include the C5-xe too) that have universally received glowing press reviews, I would like to point out several things that bugged me about these machines. One concerns the transports -- for the very high price of these machines, it is disappointing that better quality transports could not be used, rather than relying on modified CD-ROM or DVD units. Not that they don't do the job, but they are noisy - the CX7 had an annoying swishing noise, and even worse was a random ticking in the C5-xe that I've only heard before in cheap DVD players. The transports and drawer mechanisms did not seem appropriate for machines in this price class. Another annoying thing about the CX7 (not C5-xe) concerned the display - no time remaining indication. The remote controls -- even the new metal ones -- are quirky and somewhat difficult to use -- on the C5-xe remote, I had trouble getting certain modes to work, and occasionally it would freeze up. As for the sound - as you know, both machines have a definite analogue-like quality, however there is a downside -- neither one of these machines made the music very exciting for me -- oh yes, there was excellent dynamic range, soudstage, etc. but in some ways, the music sounded almost too "good" or smoothed over. Something seemed to be missing. The overall effect sort of left me cold, and when I switched in an older Creek CD player that I had, the music seemed brought back to life again, even at the expense of making some of my less well-recorded CDs sound harsher. Interestingly I found this to be true in the C5-xe with the hi-rez formats too. In case anyone is thinking -- "well, I bet he used the single ended rather than balanced outputs", in fact I did use the balanced outputs on both machines, fed to an Ayre AX-7, which is likewise a fully balanced amp. I'm sure there are many people who disagree with my opinion of the Ayre, but I did feel an obligation to offer another viewpoint, especially for folks who may be thinking of buying one. I think there are some excellent not-so-expensive CD players out there now that can give the Ayre and others in this price range quite a good run for the money.
Follow Ups:
"Something seemed to be missing. The overall effect sort of left me cold, and when I switched in an older Creek CD player that I had, the music seemed brought back to life again, even at the expense of making some of my less well-recorded CDs sound harsher."After thinking over this statement and some listening with phono versus this new CD again, I have to agree in some ways. The missing thing is obvious. It's not phono! It's only CD. I think there's only so much you can do with it. So far this CD is by far the best CD I've enjoyed. Very good long term listening sessions I had with it where before I just turned off the CD players. If you demand a more exciting player you tend to get a player you can only stand to listen for a short period. That's been the case for me so far. But I'll see about it in the long haul.
Until you mentioned it... I had not noticed that it didn't have a time remain readout. But then I had that on my previous Teac T1 and on both Marantz units that I have.... I must just never use it.
But your right about the drive, it can be quite loud whilst reading. I have the non evolution model and my one rocks, gets me singing and everything...
Its a funny old world,
It really is about system synergy. In my previous system consisting of a Mark Levinson 27.5 amp, Bel Canto PrePro, Alon II speakers, Nirvana S-X Ltd. RCA interconnects, and Alon Black Orpheus bi-wired speaker cables, the CX-7 made my system sounded overly bright, lacked bass, no warmth in vocals. I'm sure with speakers and maybe even amps that lean toward the warmer side, the CX-7 would've sounded differently. By the time I changed amps and speakers, the CX-7 was long gone. The system went through more changes over the years, and now it's all tubes everywhere, monoblock amps, CD player, as well as alnico magnet midrange drivers in the speakers. Music reproduce now without any grating digititis. I never thought CD's can sound this good, this inviting, this real. I was always hopeful mind you, but thought I'd have to spend 50K or more to get it. Anyway, do try a CX-7 or CX-7E in your system, you just never know, it might be just what your system needs.
For me and my friends, a CD player absolutely must have the time remaining function. When listening to songs, you need to know how much time is left, not how much time has elapsed.When the CD was invented the whole point was convenience. Sadly, many of today's CD players have lost sight of this. It's like my friend said: If a CD player doesn't have "time remain," why bother? If that's the case, we'll listen to vinyl instead.
Music, anyone?
I have been known to use the 'time remaining' indicator as a timer for cooking rather than the oven's own which ticks quite loudly.If there's a meal needs cooking for 40 minutes for instance I just fast forward a CD till there's 40 minutes remaining and I know I can read or surf the internet until the CD finishes, with the added bonus of not having the oven's grating alarm disturb my harmony.
In fact I think the very survival of CD is dependent on the inclusion of the 'time remaining' indicator on modern players.
Best Regards,
Chris redmond.
Here we go again, lack of countdown clock and the player is discriminated against.This is THE most ridiculous thing I have ever read on this forum. I am surprised anybody would even think about something like this as a showstopper when purchasing a CD player.
If you are looking at the clock counting down while listening to music you and your friends are in this hobby for a wrong reason.
According to your profile, you've been registered since March 2001, and this is the MOST ridiculous thing you've read on this formum in five years and eleven months? Wow! You have read selectively.Ok, just busting you a bit in all good humor - no offense.
But here is my take on this:
Since 1986 when I bought my first CD player, I've used the reverse time function maybe half a dozen times, maybe a dozen, not more. Clearly it's not an indispensible feature for me, but it is helpful to have occasionally for anyone (e.g., let's say you sort of have to pee, but not too urgently, and you're listening to a CD for the first time, and want to know if that song is almost over, in which case you'll hold it, or is a 20 minute jam session, in which case you'll have an accident, or at least get uncomfortable, and the CD case is on the other side of the room?). And for folks who do recording the feature probably is very important. And anyway, why would it be so hard for any manufacturer to include? One thing that pisses me off about this hobby is the widely believed truism that high end audio equipment need not include any convenient features and has license to be as quirky as the manufactures want. I just think that's rubbish. When I complained recently about a bizzare quirk inherent in one of my pieces of equipment, my dealer, who I like for the most part, said that people like me "may not be well suited to own *truly* highend gear"! Now THAT was the most ridiculous thing I had heard in . . . well at least in a few days!
I'm not busting on this player, which I am sure sounds fantastic and generates very high customer satisfaction. But I think Lumy does us all a service when he points out (1) features that are absent on popular players, (2) how easy it would be to include them and (3) how helpful it would be if the mainstream audio media would simply bother to include such coverage in their reviews. Then someone like you, and maybe me, can buy the player anyway and someone like Lumy can avoid it. I don't understand why he's being attacked for that.
I agree that some "hi-end" manufacturers omit standard features and I am against it. I can also see why some can find the countdown clock useful but not to the point of disregarding it as one of the purchase options.
So Ayre forgot about it, oh well, I hope it has a clock forward feature.What is annoying is that someone can repeatedly voice his general opinion on the player based exclusively on this minor feature and never mentions the sound the player produces.
You couldnt be further from the truth.Time remaining allows the listener to 'see' the exact arrangement/structure of every track as they listen. It illuminates the deeper structure of the track beyond the local melody. It is much harder to do without it. With it, it is there in front of you the whole time.
There are liner notes with track lengths printed. Let's say it says "4:50" for a particular track. You see the seconds ticking upward toward 4:50. If you're at 3:50, I think you can rest assured that there will be 1:00 left to go. Always works for me.
So you're staring at the numbers ticking away instead of looking into a soundstage, huh? Oh wait, there IS no imaging and soundstaging in your system! Oh, ok, keep looking at the numbers.
Soundstage, imaging?These dont tell you anything about the arrangement of music. Arrangement is phrasing, bars, beats, chorus, verse, motifs, timing changes key changes, counterpoint. Its called "music" as opposed to audio reproduction.
Thats what 'time remaining' allows you to see. And yes you can do it by checking the total time in the liner notes, but that means having to reference the packaging every time a track starts. With time remaining you look at the player as soon as it starts to see how long it is.
I'm pretty sure that HumanMedia was just joking. Well, at least I hope so...
means it is time to switch to LPs (I assuming that it has a forward time indicator at least).My pet peeves are no direct keypad on the player like SONY use to have and remotes made of cast aluminum and noisy playback -- time to go to harddisk players if you have to put up with noise.
Otherwise, I bet that is an excellent player -- I should be so lucky!
"My pet peeves are no direct keypad on the player like SONY use to have and remotes made of cast aluminum and noisy playback -- time to go to harddisk players if you have to put up with noise"Actually the remote I received has a direct keypad. It's a new design.
Do CD players use similar remote control codes, I found out that my Marantz CD6000 ose remote worked most of the functions on the CX 7 without going to the expense of the special Ayre remote. I just wondered if there was a common code that you could program into some after market remote control.Have fun,
There are two common remote control protocols in use -- Philips and NEC. The Philips protocol (also called RC-5) sends a signal that specifies the device (CD player, preamp, etc.) and then the command (play, stop, volume up, etc.). Almost all of the European manufacturers use the Philips protocol, as do most of the US high-end manufacturers. Therefore, a remote handset that uses the Philips protocol will operate any device that also uses the Philips protocol. The only problem you will run into is that Philips was somewhat secretive about the codes and some manufacturers simply made up their own codes that are non-standard.The NEC protocol works differently, as each manufacturer (Sony, Pioneer, etc.) applies to have their own exclusive ID code. NEC assigns this to them, so there are no duplicates. Each ID code has 256 possible commands, which are made up by each manufacturer. Almost all the Japanese companies use NEC protocol. Typically each manufacturer will have their own ID code for each product category (TVs, receivers, DVD players, etc.) So in this case, as Pioneer DVD player remote will usually operate any model of Pioneer DVD player, but nothing else.
As far as programming an aftermarket remote, all of the Ayre gear uses the Philips protocol, except for our DVD and universal players. These are based on a Pioneer manufacturing kit and therefore use the Pioneer DVD player code using the NEC protocol. Programming the remotes depends on the remote you have. The best place to get info on this is at Remote Central (link below).
Thank you for the reply... I would continue using the Marantz remote that appears to work it fine, but I do have a habit of misplacing them and then I get an earfull from the family because nobody can work the player that they are allowed to touch, the cheaper Marantz.I shall give it a go,
Good to see you back online Charles,
One of the reasons I like the Creek (CD43MkII), it tells you how much time remains -- per cut, or entire disc -- like yourself, this is very important for me. A big negative for players like the Ayre that lack this.
Well, I also think this has a lot to do with system synergy and what you have down the chain. What is down the rest of my chain is extremely energetic - autotransformer volume control, 45 SET, and BD-Design Oris 150 front-loaded horn speakers that are nearly 110 dB sensitive using Lowther/AER PM4A drivers.I want all the detail I can get, the proper tone, and excellent soundstaging. The rest of the chain is so hyped-up in transient reproduction capability that trading those traits in for ultimate PRaT sources could start to put me on edge and grate on my ears, to be quite honest. You don't put on a slamming, edgy player into a Lowther horn and expect an overall balanced sound. It will go hyper on you. At least I think so.
Regarding the transport, etc. I like it much better than my SCD-777ES top loader that looks like it's built like a tank and yet it's the weak link in terms of reliability. So if it works, it works good for me, and if it doesn't, I don't want it. And Ayre has a 2-year warranty on the transport, not bad. What I don't like about it is the new remote they now have that lacks a "skip to next track" button, forward and reverse. That annoys me a bit.
So far, like I said, it's working out for me just fine.
To see what kind of sound that the amp/speaker combo also worked well with, it's my phono: Teres 255, VPI JMW-10, Koetsu Urushi feeding a step-up transformer and a tubed phono stage. Now these components are also not the ultimate in PRaT, although they combine to be pretty darn good at it. These TT components make the tone sound superb with lots of detail and soundstaging. The amp/speaker combo picks up the PRaT, whatever it gets and then some. Lowthers can go overboard on their own, like I said.
< < What I don't like about it is the new remote they now have that lacks a "skip to next track" button, forward and reverse. > >Unless my pain meds are kicking my butt, these should be on your remote. There are the "navigator" buttons (up, down, left, right) in a circle. The up and down are for the volume on a preamp or integrated, and the left and right are for the previous and next functions on the CD player. We figured we'd put the most commonly used buttons in the most accessible location. It should be in the owner's manual also.
I've been wanting to express my sympathies about your accident and current chronic condition, but didn't know what to say exactly. I know what chronic pain is like, and I was once on Vicodin for two years. The doctor refused to let me continue with that medication any further. Now I am using Tramadol, which works okay, but not like Vicodin did. And now the doctor is trying to talk me out of using Tramadol. No way, I used to live without pain relief, and it was not an acceptable quality of life that way.I prefer not to tell everyone in the world about why I need it. But I do. Chronic pain is a bad thing. So I wish you the best, and don't overdo it and lose your hearing like Rush Limbaugh. 1/2 :) What is it that they say? Use it so that your pain level is a "3"?
Kurt
That's not the correct manual for the version I have, apparently. When I get home I'll have a try at those navigator buttons. I thought I already tried those, but I'll do it all over again. Thanks Charles.BTW, I listened again last night with it having 150 hours on it. It's still getting better! I'm loving this thing. I never would have thought that this could come from CD.
Sorry about that. I'm not even sure if the printed manual is the correct version, either. The mold for the old remote broke, so we had to switch to a new version. I'm looking at the files on my computer and I'm not sure that I ever finished the new version of the manual or not.It should be pretty straightforward to figure out, but not quite as straightforward as the old remote. But once you get used to it, it is easier to use.
All of the buttons towards the top are used to operate the CD player, while the buttons toward the bottom operate the preamp (or integrated amp). The dividing line is at the "navigator" buttons that form a circle, and here the functions overlap. The "up" and "down" buttons control the volume on the preamp, while the "left" and "right" buttons control the "previous" and "next" functions on the CD player. 95% of the time, you are just using the four "navigator" buttons to control your stereo.
"Sorry about that. I'm not even sure if the printed manual is the correct version, either."Well I did look at my manual that came in the box. I'm pretty sure it was the same as the website's manual, and showed the old remote control. You might have someone check on that problem. I'm just glad you came through and answered the mystery.
I assume when you say "other player that would give Ayre a run for its money", what you really meant to way was: just get the Rega Saturn and call it a day :D
Good thought...but what I decided to do is keep the Creek as a transport and feed it to an external DAC. As a side comment, I've switched exclusively to headphone listening and am using a HeadRoom "Maxed-out" Desktop with DAC and AKG 701 phones. I suppose you have to get used to headphones, but for me, it's altogether better sound - dynamics, resolution, everything (except I guess soundstage) -- than I got from speaker-based systems. For this reason, I don't miss the Ayre equipment at all. But I think I can do better, and am now contemplating going the balanced route with headphones, which is said to give more a expansive soundstage closer to that of speakers with the benefits of phones. Different strokes...or "whatever floats your boat."
I sold a kilobuck speaker-based system to go to a SOTA headphone rig. It not only costs MUCH, MUCH less, but it also sounds better in most respects. I'm soooo glad I got off that particular hamster wheel. My wife is too. :) Good for you for taking the road less traveled in this hobby.
I'm with you in chosing headphones over speakers.Actually,having speakers in my townhouse is out because of noise issues with the neighbors.My alternative plan is the Rega Saturn as my source with a Chinese tube amp and then the AKG 701.I'm getting exceptional sound quality and tacking into account all the money I saved going without speakers,amps,ect...
lol..funny I went the other way. I use to have a Dynahi (one of the super SS amp) and HD650 with Cardas. and now I am exclusive on speaker, which I find is much much better than headphone presentation. lol..I know if I get a chance to own an HE90 I would probably give up my spker. but only for the Big O :D
Very good in lots of ways, but... left me kind of cold, didn't get my foot tapping. My current CDP (SAT CDfix) isn't as clean, dynamic, detailed - but sucks you in the music better. So it stayed. But vinyl is a whole different story..! =)
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