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24.23.1.49
In Reply to: astonished at the performance posted by Baranyi on January 18, 2007 at 20:15:27:
Bob, get a grip. This little player is very good for the money, but it is a far cry from being high fidelity. The highs are way too hot, causing sibilance. The mids are fairly clear, but colored. Instruments lack true timbre, and character. Bass is smeared, and soft. The squirrely playback could use some serious reclocking.It may be a winner for receiver and box speaker systems, but certainly not good company for the great Scintilla. I wish you were here so I could demonstrate what I am talking about.
This from a local audiophile who has a crack SET system with oodles of musicality and detail:
Vince,
I've been using a Toshiba 3960 for 2 years now in my second system rig. It's
the prior version of what you have (but I think I paid retail of $69)
which at the time was all the rage on the asylum. Stock it's just as you describe. And,
yes, I know what you mean, Vince! Darned good for the $, but no way
is it a contender compared to the big boys. Fun to compare and find
something so cheap that you can tweak and what are you out, $38?!
Follow Ups:
Vince,
I think that you are wrong in your thoughts about this unit. You think that I am wrong also. I have no problem in our both agreeing to disagree. I do that regularly with my spouse! As I posted at the Apogee forum, the variation in our results probably has more due to the differences in our ancillary equipment. A friend who has an incredible kilobuck system agrees wholeheartedly with my assessment and is currently using this player. My point is only that there is a variety of opinion on this player. Now your choice of speakers is something we can agree on! Bob
Bob,Fine then, but it is not an opinion. My "ancillary equipment" is first rate. The fact I can hear the true character of this cheap player, just as it has with every player through here, speaks very well for Henry's creations.
The H2O and Fire will ferret out every bitsy passed on by wires and front ends. The Audio Note fine tunes all nuances of the music. Orchestra pieces show it off. My friend's SET system is par excellence at detail and staging. His is the other opinion.
If you cannot hear the glaring deficiencies of the stock Toshiba, then it is your ancillary equipment that is masking it's faults. Vince
Vince,
As you know, I think the world of Henry Ho (H20) and wish him well on his new move to Texas. He really is a fine man and I feel blessed to know him. I can tell you that my ancillary equipment is first rate and as you know I have quite a bit of experience with the equipment that you use (less the front end). I love this hobby for all the surprises that one encounters and all the pleasure that it brings. Thanks Vince for taking the time and trouble to check out this machine. We all experience things differently and using different gear brings interactions between gear that is hard to predict. I am not at all surprised that some will not like the Toshiba according to their preferences and gear interactions. Your opinion on this topic is just as valid as mine. The good news is that anyone can try the machine and if they don't like it that can take it back for no loss. That doesn't happen in audio!On another note, I spoke to Teajay yesterday by phone who started the incredible Reference DAC thread on Audiogon. It is really one of the most informative threads that one could read. It turns out that he only lives 10 minutes from where I work! He has the amazing Accustic Arts Dac mk 4 and transport to the tune of approximately 14K and he uses the largest Magnepans MG20s. We plan on getting together very soon and I told him that I will bring the little Toshiba to his house for laughs. I will let everyone know the results when that happens. All the best. Bob
Quote:
" I spoke to Teajay yesterday by phone who started the incredible Reference DAC thread on Audiogon... He has the amazing Accustic Arts Dac mk 4 and transport to the tune of approximately 14K and he uses the largest Magnepans MG20s. We plan on getting together very soon and I told him that I will bring the little Toshiba to his house for laughs. I will let everyone know the results when that happens.
Bob,
I read throught the Reference DAC post you mentioned and agree with you describing it as incredible: Have you had a chance to bring the 3990 over to Teajay's for laughs, yet ?cheers,
PeAK
Thank you for your civility, Bob. I must admit I am being the more defensive. Did you try the Fire? This much I can tell you. it's something almost no owner of Henry's creations know. The H2O and the Fire are blank slates on which the user must write their own preferential sound. I know this for a fact, because I have had a lot of audio crazies through here, bringing along their favorite CDP, or DAC. Each and every front end exhibited their distinctive stamp on sound. There is a particularly marked difference between the non-oversamplers and the oversamplers.For example, the Toshiba is clearer sounding than the many fold more expensive Consonance I had here for a time. The Consonance, on the other hand, was far better at simple ensembles, PRAT, and bass. Neither hold a candle to my modified Lambda, and Audio Note. That's not just my opinion, it is ever listener's opinion as well.
I have to wonder how you can state you are getting more detail out of your system since you changed amps. This is something I cannot believe, since I already went through that route. It also flies in the face of other highly resolving systems I know of, like the SET system I have mentioned, and an all TacT system I am very familiar with. The Toshiba sucks on their systems too.
Like I said before, and this is not a bluff, you would be astonished at the difference between the two systems. The lame Toshiba, with it's hot HF might seem more detailed at first, then you start notice all the missing nuances that define instruments like the violin, let alone the Stradivarius. You will be amazed at the distinct players of the violin section on the AN, where the Toshiba lumps the same. It is all easily demonstrable, and it is no small preferential nudge.
The Toshiba's hot highs also made a mess of singers. Their exhaled breath was more evident than their voice. Solid state amps do not pass on this trait so much, as they supplant The Toshiba hiss with their own HF thickness.
I have the movie screen up now, and Serena is talking about her Aussie win. Even the cable box sound is superior to the Toshiba's.
It is clear I cannot convince you, since you believe you know what I am listening to. You just would have to be here. You would leave wondering why?
Vince
Vince,
I would love to come visit you but not to underscore our differences of opinion. I would visit to celebrate our common love of music. Are you coming to Chicago anytime soon to visit your daughter? Aren't you in Sacramento? Maybe a Yosemite to San francisco by way of Sacramento trip would be in order this summer! A tip of my hat to you as one of the passionate audiophiles that I know. I am quite sure that if we can arrange this meeting we would be both leave richer than before. OK, and if I could prove that you were wrong it would even be better! I'm not perfect!All the best. Bob
Bob, nothing would make me happier than to open my doors to your visit.Actually, both my Chicago daughter and I will be in Manhattan in late April to celebrate the marriage of her twin sister.
Yes, I am in Sacramento, a short trip away from Yosemite, and an hour away from beautiful San Francisco.
If you want to hear the truth about the little Toshiba, you will have to tote your DVD player with you. You needn't though, as I promise you would be treated to gorgeous Scintilla music anyway.
Here's to friendship in music.
You're not alone ...
PwAK, funny you should mention drums. With my equipment I hear the taut skin of every drum. With the Toshiba, just a note.
Muralman1, your post should have read:
Bob, get a grip. This little player is very good for the money, but it is a far cry from being high fidelity.
Quote from a local audiophile who has a crack SET system with oodles of musicality and detail:
"
The highs are way too hot, causing sibilance. The mids are fairly clear, but colored. Instruments lack true timbre, and character. Bass is smeared, and soft. The squirrely playback could use some serious reclocking. It may be a winner for receiver and box speaker systems, but certainly not good company for the great Scintilla. I wish you were here so I could demonstrate what I am talking about."
Just to be clear, the comments made above were not by Murlaman1 . There are probably aspects to the comments related to system synergy as I'm sure the SET based system was not driving Scintillas. Bob (Baranyi) has also tried burn-in (necessary) and different interconnects .
The chassis is very lightweigtht and resonant and needs to be damped...I know it is hard to take seriously and to "tweak it" but it is far ahead of your 3960 unit (even modded). The output stage is using a 60 cent dual op-amp which is probably one of the first upgrades to try.
I am muralman1. I own Scintillas. You copied my statement, not the quote. The quote I mentioned was of another testimony besides mine.I know upgrades can help. I have seen lots of low lying CDPs improved thusly. They never reach the levels set at great CDPs. I'm sure, for instance, I can throw on some MITs and cool the bright highs. Why should I?
Yes I misread your post. The 3990 comments at the top are yours while those at the bottom are from the SET user using the 3950.
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