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In Reply to: Re: The "DIP" Dupe... posted by HumanMedia on January 4, 2007 at 00:39:24:
This may be all well and good if specs are what you fellows are looking for. I'm not on the pursuit for specs..I need and like a very organic and textured sound from digital. I use NON OS Dacs and have zero interest in oversampling varients. For the NON OS types of Dacs the DIP is a God sent.Does this mean the NON OS are poorly engineered?..I doubt it. I'll take the ability of all day listening over the ear bleeds any day.
I see those Benchmark Dacs taughted constantly for this anti jitter ability..I also see them for sell just as much.LOL
Good listening
Follow Ups:
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Specs? benchmark?
Not sure what you are talking about.You seem to be trying to tie de-jitter chips to oversampling implementations. A DAC circuit, oversampling or not, can have a de-jitter chip before the converter, just the same a manually adding another box externally (which you seem to favour). But it might not be necessary as the DAC may already have the de-jiiter chip built in (and usually are these days). It would be best to find out if the DAC already has one before adding another effectively useless box.
You are mistaken. The NON OS Dacs that I use and most I've seen, do not have a de-jitter chip. They also have no analog or digital filters. Which also doesn't follow the traditional route of so called good engineering or absolute pursuit of specs.You can speculate all you like..you need to hear some of them for yourself. The DIP works great with these types of Dacs. Go to the 47 Labs home page and read up on this type of Dac..totally different animal from oversampling or upsampling varients.
P.S if you want really low jitter ability use a PC/HD as a transport..it doesn't get much better than that. No more CD players for me!;-) I wouldn't waste the money on one.
Transports still make a huge difference in my book no matter the Dac design.
for the rest of us, you didn't write the book that matters. You have been wrong on all counts technically but you are certainly free to voice those opinions and more importantly to listen to whatever it is that you enjoy.I personally like Lp playback and have collected lp's for thirty years. I know a few things about analog sound as well. I went through all of the early digital stuff, from the very first Magnavox players to many successive generations of multi-bit units, single bit units, every type of oversampling scheme, bitstream, single disc players, multi-disc players, separate DAC & transports, then used the reclocking (the actual DIP included) devices between them, various digital cable types, you name it and I have tried it. Still, with all of that listening experience milage behind me, I suggest a new CD player as the best value for anyone considering a nice sounding, red book digital player. Times have changed and so have the players. For compressed digital, you can use about anything but for a red book CD, nothing bests a great CD player. Jitter is vanishingly low in the better hi-fi players today and certainly inaudible.
I actually agree with you that error correction circuitry of old has been problematic and that various types of solutions have been more or less helpfull. I don't agree however that the latest generation of players have not finally addressed the issue successfully. Listen to a few of the very latest high end players and you will find something that takes a huge stack of cash to better with analog playback these days. That comes from a record collector!
-Bill
I've never said that new players haven't addressed anything. I for one have no problems hearing the difference in transports..unfortunetly this doesn't work for everyone.. Different strokes for different folks I guess. In ten years we'll see if CD players are still around as a whole...I seriously doubt it though. My ears are still fairly young ..I don't need over emphasis of upper frequencies to hear a complete musical picture. Maybe in 20 years I'll be in your shoes.:-)You are right it is totally up to me what makes my ears happy...that will never change. Your response is what I expect from a dealer..good job.
And happy listeningGood listening
I have excellent HF hearing. That is probably what has led me into experimenting with audio gadgets for most of my life.What I am saying is that your statements are based on old technology. They don't hold true anymore with the latest DACs. It would be worth you while to check out some of the better new CD players out there. You will be surprised with the improved performance of them.
Sorry man, I regret sounding so harsh about it. My bust. I don't ever want to be a jerk about it but I also don't like to let misconceptions go unanswered when their correction could be of service to others.
-Bill
No problem Bill..it is just a hobby.I do enjoy it very much. I'll be checking out some gear tomorrow up in the ATL. I'm sure you are right about the newer CD players being better at this. I just like the convenience of the PC now. It will be hard to go back to the one disc player. With uncompressed music the PC is very tough to beat for cost and convenience. I also like being able to swap Dacs at will, when I get bored with one sound I just swap to the other.All the Best
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