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In Reply to: CD or CD/SACD ??? posted by JAIME ESPINOSA on December 21, 2006 at 19:10:33:
I woild suggest a very good CD-Playyer since most of us have more RBCD titles than SACDs. I own a Marantz SACD player and don't use it much since most SACD titles are poorly recorded and not worth the extra money.There are Non-Over-Sampling DACS and player that can enhance RVCD playback. Further, PHILIPS has a player (Europe only) that convets 44.1 PCM to DSD. Ultimately, it'your choice in the matter.
Good lick!
Follow Ups:
HowdyI couldn't let this pass. You are wrong. I have most SACDs and they do have some variability, but not nearly as much as CDs. As a whole the SACDs are much better recorded than my CDs.
-Ted
I couldn't let this pass. You are partly correct Ted. We both know that you meant:"As a whole the SACDs are much better recorded than my CDs."
should be this:
"As a whole the SACDs are much better mastered than my CDs."
I'll disregard the differences between mediums as we all are realistic of CDs limitations.
HowdyPerhaps not, most of my SACDs are recorded and mastered better than my most of my CDs. This says nothing about any one elses CD collections. However since I have most of the available SACDs and a non trivial number of CDs I felt my statements justified.
-Ted
I look at the tape made at the original session / recording as the master tape. Regardless of format, you are using that, whether it be digital whatever, 2 track at 30 ips... Provided the CD transfer wasn't from a second or third gen master that leaves us with the the mastering to the format as well as the format itself as possible points of altered sound, not the recording itself. So my point is that if they both use the same master tape, the master in and of itself is a moot point since they would both be using the same source, good or bad. A bad recording will not be improved by higher bit rates. Case in point "Jazz at Massey Hall." It sounds crappy on whatever medium you play it on: CD, SACD, LP... The performance however, Salt Peanuts.
HowdyI understand your point, it's the same as Todd's point down lower and I disagree (at least in my case.) My SACDs (which are more than representative of SACDs in general) are better recorded than my CDs (which may or may not be representative of CDs as a whole, I have pretty strange taste :) Most of my CDs are not that greatly recorded and they are, in general, not dupes of my SACDs.
Even with your (and Todd's point of view) my original point stands: "most SACD titles are NOT poorly recorded".
-Ted
Ted, your missing my point. Provided that the CD and SACD of the same title are made from the same master tape, the SACD can never be a better "recording" since they are from the same original session / tape. For our practical purposes, the master is the recording. Or do the makers of some of your SACDs have access to a source tape that the rest of us do not? Mind you, this does not consider CDs made from 2nd or 3rd generation tapes of which there are many.Better ultimate sound for the SACDs versus the CD of any recording? Most probably yes. We'll both agree that SACD medium is a more transparent medium. That leaves us with the other variable. The fact that any SACD being put out most probably uses the original master recording and the uses the best available mastering facilities available for their project. These two variables are responsible for the better sound heard, not the original recording.
Legal disclaimer: These comparisons are only valid on the same playback deck and system.
HowdyI didn't miss your point, nor Todd's. I'm not sure that you understand my original point or the context in which I was trying to make it.
The context was a poster claiming "most SACD titles are poorly recorded" which is so clearly bogus that, as I said, I couldn't let it pass. I merely pointed out that I disagreed and since I had most SACDs and a fair collection of CDs it was clearly wrong in my case. I stand by that. The thing I know that almost certainly others don't is that my SACD and CD collections represent very different qualities of recordings (and performances, mastering, etc.) Anyway it doesn't matter if you get my point, it's not such a big deal anyway :)
-Ted
The original poster has never heard an SACD, period. Even on an OK system, SACDs special qualities can be heard. That is unless the poster has only heard music like Toto IV, which absolutely sounds horrid, they have no case. The Friday at San Francisco disc sounds pretty tiny to me as well. Some of the early Sony SACDs should simply not have been. The jazz on the other hand, Uh Um.
Then the question is, have you heard great cd's???
As somebody else said, I also have late 50's early 60's recordings that are still my references when it comes to audio quality.
In most cases better than the so called audiophiles cd's.
jazz1
HowdySure I have heard great CDs. I'm not trying to debate formats here. I was (as the subject still indicates) disagreeing with the obvious misstatement that "most SACD titles are poorly recorded".
To my ear and on the better systems I've listened to when there is an SACD and CD from the same masters I like the SACD better. But there are many wonderful recordings available on all formats. I haven't sold my CD collection :)
My original point is that most SACDs are well recorded, not poorly recorded. I can say this with relative confidence since I own most of the titles available on SACD and have listened to many of them on at least a dozen different systems. My collection of CDs is much more mixed in the quality of original recordings, but I've never claimed that my CD collection is representative: tho I have thousands of CDs there are many more CDs that I don't have and I have no illusions that my selection represents anyone but myself.
-Ted
In my 2000 + cds collection which includes quite a few SACD's none of them would be used for demonstration. as many non SACD sound much better.
At the end of the day it is not so much the format it is the recording itself.
jazz1
"In my 2000 + cds collection which includes quite a few SACD's none of them would be used for demonstration. as many non SACD sound much better."Many, but not most, do. OTOH, the majority of the discs I choose for demonstration are MCH SACDs...............unless the target of the demo is a traditionalist audiophile with expectations. ;-)
"At the end of the day it is not so much the format it is the recording itself."
Amen.
Kal
Regardless of CD, SACD, vinyl, or master tape, the big and telling difference is the recording.
Bill Bailey
_______________
Good enough is good enough
"I have most SACDs and they do have some variability, but not nearly as much as CDs."I'd think higher resolution playback would increase the perceived variability amongst recordings.... Or in other words, the variables in recording at the studio would be more-noticeable off the high-rez format, hence perceived as more variable.
And conversely, there should be less perceived variance amongst MP3 recordings. For the differences at the studio are obscured even further by yet lower resolution media storage and playback.
HowdyYou are assuming that other things besides the format are not varying. But this isn't true, for example: the first SACD releases were definitely cherry picked and most companies released their best material...
-Ted
I played Rosanna once. ONCE! My brother came down from New York over Thanksgiving. He wanted to hear how my rig sounded. He put on that masterpiece of you know what (Toto IV). Great music, horrible sound. He still does not know what my upgraded player can do. Bring on one of those 50s titles that you are referring to and his jaw would hit the floor. The Mingus is, so to speak: Uh Hum. Song # 2 is about a player that would have been 50 on the day I was born had he lived through 1959.
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