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In Reply to: Comparing CD Players posted by energyandair on December 10, 2006 at 20:42:06:
"I like the sound but wonder what I am missing compared to newer players."Not much.... I think in general, newer players might have a smidgen more resolution, but I also think a lot of new designs kill the music worse than earlier designs. Due to more RFI (from higher sampling rates and output wordlengths) and in some cases HF noise as an artifact of asynchronous sample-rate conversion.
I think some of the best CD playback across-the-board took place in the mid and late 1990s, when 20-bit 8x oversampoling products were in vogue. Some of the best values can be found on Audiogon, with such products from Sonic Frontiers, Timbre Technology, Altis, Classe, and Threshold.
"In listening to players that are at least 10 years newer and listed in the $1500 - $3500 range I expected to hear a very noticeable improvement but the differences I am hearing seem relatively minor."
I could have predicted that.... Aside from longer wordlength output, the basic design of DAC chips hasn't changed much since oversampling became the preferred method of filtering, back in the late 1980s. Most of the raves over the past decade with digital sources have beem mostly "flavor of the month" type of hype. The greatest thing now, but then totally forgotten once a few more raves come forth.
A few weeks ago, I heard an early-1990s vintage Magnavox CD changer. And to me, it sounded better than most of what's marketed today.
Follow Ups:
I, too, believed the proclamations of the audio press that cd playback has improved by leaps and bounds. So in 2002, I replaced my old, circa 1986, Magnavox CDB 650, with a Sony SCD C222es player. Except for the Sony's briliant SACD's performance, I did not find much improvement with redbook. If anything, the old Magnavox had better bass and PRAT than the newer player.
I think the most-frequent surpise audiophiles have run into in recent time is trying an old CD player from the late-1980s or early-1990s, and coming to the reality that the overall quality of Redbook CD playback has not really advanced much since that time.In fact, just several weeks ago, a fellow audiophile, after auditioning a player of such vintage, got absolutely unglued over the notion that he may have blown at least 20 grand in upgrading his CD source during that time, only to find out he didn't really improve anything. Although the experience has made him conclude that high-end audio is a "quack industry," signing onto the sentiment of the "objectivist/science" crowd.
This is why I went with NAD: old-school 20 and 24 bit 8x DACs. I didn't want a new-fangled 24/96 converter.
I guess that I had bought into the story that the newer CD players are always a lot better except in the case of extreme differences in quality level.I'm now starting to wonder about that and I'll look for the opportunity to listen to the makes you mention.
Its interesting that you mention Magnavox. I had always dismissed them as cheap stuff that wasn't worth bothering with but on a recommendation from someone who is pretty knowledgeable, I listened to one a while back. It looked like BPC but the Philips transport was quick and smooth and the sound was first rate except for a limited bottom end. I'd like to hear one of their better models.
Regards
I've been using an old Magnavox CDB460, since the 80's.
Bought a new Denon CD player a few years back (cannot remember model #).
The old Magnavox CREAMED IT!!
Sent it back ASAP for a refund.
The Magnavox has stayed put ever since.
Spent $20 on a nice, working Magnavox CDB492 for when/if the CDB 460 dies.....always ride the horse you came in on.
Steve
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