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Hi,I poseted this same query on the SACD forum but thought I might get some valuable input here as well.
I've just begun investigating the various alternatives to RBCD, most specifically SACD.
This has occurred somewhat by accident really. I initially purchased a demo Samsung HD841 DVD player in the summer of 2005 due to its relative low price and DVI output. At the time I wasn't aware that the Samsung also played SACD's--it was intended for video use only and seemed suitable for my needs.
During the spring of 2006 I purchased several used Rolling Stones and Bob Dylan hybrid SACD's--I purchased them all at once and didn't realize that the discs were hybrids--at that time I was aware of the existence of alternative formats but knew nothing about them. My lack of interest was in large part due to the fact that I wasn't prepared to make the financial investment in hardware and software in what I at least thought wasn't a universally settled on hi-rez format.
Anyway, in addition to digital media a also have a fair amount of vinyl. Unfortunately, due to the inconsistencies in the quality of new vinyl (I posted a query on this subject in the Vinyl Forum last week) I've found myself browsing the digital forums for information on the direction digital is heading.
Over the weekend I transferred the Samsung to my two channel system and picked up a few used SACD titles: Miles Davis, Kind of Blue; Derek and the Dominos, Layla; and, Yo-Yo MA, Silk Road Journeys. I've been listening on and off and have to say I'm not too sure what to make of the Samsung as an audio player. I never bothered to AB the Samsung with my Rega Planet based on the assumption that the two units were in wholly different classes.
I'm still listening but I have to say that the Yo-Yo MA piece was quite amazing and Kind of Blue was quite enjoyable--on the Samsung no less.
Now, I know there are all kinds of variables here: age of source tape, mastering, original recording techniques, some discs hybrid, some discs SACD only--but I'm definately intrigued by what I'm hearing.
So, the Rega Planet is now eight years old and I'm sure digital technology had taken a few steps forward. I havn't been spending alot of time reading reviews of cd players in the meantime however, and now there's SACD, DVD-A and other formats as well.
So, I'm now back to thinking about upgrading my digital player and the choices appear to be RBCD only, RBCD/SACD, or, universal player.
I have no idea where SACD, DVD-A are headed. Nevertheless, I've read a lot of positive reviews of the available SACD discs and am thinking that it makes sense to consider either a CD/SACD or a universal player so that I can incorporate those formats into my music collection.
I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on the Samsung as that is the player that's providing me with my first exposure to SACD.
I'm also wondering about the future of digital (as it relates to discs and not downloading) and am wondering what other's think of the universal players (Marantz for example) as opposed to dedicated CD/SACD players.
I guess the bottom line here is that I find myself being increasingly disappointed with the vinyl offerings and am coming to the conclusion that vinyl fits best into my collection (with exceptions) as a source of music that can't be had in other formats.
I have alot of RBCD's that sound great to me, and many that don't--the same applies to vinyl. So, I'm thinking of upgrading the Rega Planet to a player that accomodates more than just RBCD and am really intersted in what others are doing these days.
BTW my system is comprised of Rega Plant & NAD 533 turntable, Audio Refinement Complete Integrated Amplifier and Paradigm Studio 20 v.1 speakers.
Thanks in advance.
Steve W.
Follow Ups:
SFTech and I have the same player and my opinion usually mirrors his. I like but don't love my Pioneer and wanted to spend $500 or more to mod it but hedged and waited.Now, I am thinking to go cheap China made DAC, tubed and am researching it, since the Pioneer works great mechanically and is a good if not best out there as a transport. It needs work to dampen vibration but I am already enjoying it. Just met a guy who does the music server thing with tubed DIY DAC.
I compared the Samsung 841HD in Nov 2005 with my Pioneer and with a Philips DVDR 75 as well as Cyberhome DV 300. Comparisons were short and not based on systematic review, as I had gotten the unit refurb off the Samsung ebay store, very cheaply, for my uncle. I broke it in about 3 days some with each format.
Samsung stock is silky, smooth, nice sound, has a artificial soundstage that is pleasant (see below). Runs hot and can be noisy (whrrr-whrrr as it plays). I dunno how it does vs. an old Rega--did you A-B vs. your old Rega player?
Philips may have been a bigger sound but less silky and more digital and detailed. Cyberhome about the same as Philips. Pioneer WAAY better in all aspects. Soundstage superior, depth and height and width, cleaner sounding, not as artificially warm but still OK, etc. etc. etc.
For my genre, and need to expand library, no contest--LP is better than all the above except on a few cd's and sacd's. It thus depends on so many factors. If I were you, and you like classical, upgrade your analog. But if not, think DAC.
I have had 2 dedicated SACD players, neither of them cheap, and a number of different Redbook players, both one and two-box. From this experience I think it is true that SACD really has little over conventional CD when the Redbook playback is top-notch. I would say put your money into better CD playback as well.The DAC idea is an interesting one, and will teach you more than if you just replace your Planet with a new one-box player. If you go that route, make sure your digital interconnect is 1.5m long. The Apogee Wyde Eye is a very good entry-level choice.
I havn't kept up with advancements in redbook players. I'm really wondering at what price point (or what players) would I begin to see improvements over the Rega Planet. In other words, the Rega cost near $700 in 1998--is the technology in the Rega now available at lower price points so that real improvements can be has say in the $1000 price range? The last time I had any discussion about redbook technology was with a dealer a few years ago who suggested that an expenditure of $2000 on a something like a Meridian redbook player would be necessary to get playback approximating my NAD 533/Grado turntable. Some Linn products were also mentioned.The same dealer didn't encourage the outbourd DAC option suggesting that simply inserting a different DAC wouldn't necessarily mean improvemnent in that component matching would be an issue--at the time I think they had a used MSB DAC I wanted to try.
I guess the bottom line here is that I'm assuming technology has improved and an upgrade of some kind is in order. My budget is in the $1000 range. The DAC option sounds like an intersting solution to me also.
If you were considering either players of DAC's what would you look at in the $1000 range--or would forgo that price point and start at the $1500 - $2000 price point?
My other equipment consists of an Audio Refinement Complete integrated amp, Paradigm Studio 20 speakers, Kimber cables.
If you’ve not been out shopping in a while, my suggestions is to start low. I’m not sure what the current hot models are, but cheap (~200) consumer products (Panasonic S47, Toshiba SD-3950, Denon 3910) have surpassed many of yesterdays darlings. Each generation seems to be getting better, less expensive, but less durable.If your old player still works, the transport maybe more reliable than the newer stuff esp anything using a computer cd-drive...go for a DAC.
I have a JAS Audio Musik 1.2 tubed CDP and it is turning out very well, with lots of detail and depth, nice timbres, plenty of rhythm and minimal digital artifacts. It's right around the price range you mention, but I don't know about availability in the States (I'm in Montreal).As for DACs... a pal of mine has changed his Ack! DAC for a Taiwan-made Constantine unit and this Monday he demoed it for me. Paired with my TEAC VRDS T1 transport it was very sweet. It was not so sweet with a Sony DVD player as digital source, so transport quality makes an appreciable difference.
Use the Samsung to play the hi-rez discs that you have for now. If I could do it over again I would've put money into the best redbook player I could afford. I have a Pioneer DV-47ai universal player that sounds pretty good w/ redbook and is also a good SACD and DVD-A player... but I know now that what I really need is a killer CD source (the bulk of my collection). I'll live with the Pioneer until I can afford a great CD player, and I'll keep it for the SACDs and DVD-As that I have. This is probably the golden age of CD playback... there are so many good choices available. I'm eyeballing a Rega Apollo right now.Something else you might consider is a DAC using the Rega or the Samsung as a transport. If you can find a good DAC in your price range, it could be a more flexible solution in the long run.
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