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In Reply to: Re: Saturn Price suprising? posted by hairydog on November 14, 2006 at 19:59:44:
It is not my place to be an advocate for Rega but why should there be any correlation between price of parts and the finished product? Even if you are right (and I can't see how you could know) and the Saturn costs say an extra 200 bucks in parts that is easily 600 bucks by the time it ends up in the shop.
There has also been a lot of additional software plus a new metal front etc.None of that is really relevant however, the only thing that is important is the quality of the sound against the price.
The Apollo doesn't even come into this equation as it is not in the same league as the Saturn, the only players that do are those that can compete on a sound basis.
I have heard the Saturn in direct A/B tests against players costing between 150 and 500 British pounds more and the Saturn was the better player. In that context the Saturn is a bargain and could easily retail for more. (Exactly the same arguement that you have used for the Apollo)I am afraid the last sentence of the OP shows the flaw in your case, you haven't heard the Saturn. The sound is the end product and the only thing that can ultimately justify the price of a product although build quality, looks etc are factors they are secondary.
The market will of course decide, Rega will either prosper or fall, but I believe that the Saturn will be around for some time to come and for me it is worth every penny.
Follow Ups:
Agreed the sound is what matters most. Build is an issue for some (a guy who reviews the Apollo on audioenz.com harps on the build and the plastic transport in the 1000 dollar Apollo, wonder how he'd feel about having that same cheap part on a 2400 dollar machine). I know what Nichicon capacitors (even the gold variety are not that expensive) and Plitron or similar Transformers cost because I have bought them before and have catalogs for them. To put it in another light Rega says it cost as much to make just the platter for a P 9 as an entire P 3, as well as a much better and labor intensive tonearm, better plinth cabling etc. so I can understand the price difference. No such difference exists between the Apollo and Saturn, what you got is 200 bucks (at most) more of parts for 1400 bucks extra. I dont doubt that it stacks up to any machine around the price and more, but people like myself or the audioenz guy might not buy it just on principle.
the market will bear. It's capitalism after all. Our audio world is relatively small and this is how you get reimbursed for R&D. If REGA were selling 500,000 of them, your formula for parts mark up might be appropriate, but their audience is relatively small and they certainly deserve a profit. Otherwise, we could all shop for parts and build everything ourselves, which in my case is just not an option.
R and D was part of my reasoning, the Saturn uses the same transport and operating system as the previous Apollo machine, so the main of R and D was done already. They sell more than you might think. The serial number on my Apollo was 38550 and that was within 2 months after they came out. They were and sometimes continue to be back ordered, meaning they are sometimes selling about as fast as Rega can crank them out. Anyway I own 4 pieces of Rega gear and certainly am not out to trash them. I love their cdp's and my P3 table. I just think the Saturn could easily have been closer to two thousand dollars and I won't be surprised if the price drops a bit down the road, as was seen with the Jupiter. Even 1100 Apollo and 2200 Saturn makes better sense all around.
The Apollo and the Saturn are not just your run of the mill CD players.I'm sure they've sold a least 500,000 of the Apollo already and I'll bet they will sell at least that with the Saturn.The Apollo has become my choice one box solution CD player.Hopefully the wave of the future.
Half a million Apollo's?
The Apollo has been on sale for about a year now, that would be 10,000 a week!Rega employ about 50 people, lets assume (cos it makes the figures easier) that they all actually work in production and Rega makes no other product. That is 200 Apollo players per person per week!
I think Rega would be lucky to achieve a tenth of that figure.
They are a small company who still manufacture in the UK, the economies of scale for purchasing of componants and of manufacture do not apply.
Mind you I think this whole arguement is a bit pointless, do you get enjoyment from listening to superbly reproduced music or looking at nicely made cheap boxes?
I'm just projecting towards the future and a happy Apollo owner.I can also tell your a bit sensitive so I'll just put my headphones back on and move on.Good luck.
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