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prey to cutting-edge technology. $40K 4-box Zanden with 16-bit technology vs. $40 3-box SOTA Esoteric Digital..I have listened to Esoteric P03/D03 as well as others in the line, and so far they all have exceptional sound, except maybe the DV-60..
Follow Ups:
You've listened to both? Esoteric vs Zanden, that is...
The good news for most of us is that the company launched the X01 d2 at Tokyo last month that apparently offers everything the D03/P03 setup does for considerably less money.
Did you happen to read about the technical measurements that John A. made in the last issue of Sterophile? Appalling for a DAC this expensive IMO.
As discussed in the Manufacturer's Comments accompanying the Zanden review, Atkinson's measurements were skewed by a wiring fault in a polarity switch of the review sample that induced problems in the analog filter. The listening test portion of the review went smoothly, as during audition the polarity switch was put in the opposing (benign) position. I don't know which is worse: Zanden's quality control, Stereophile's confusion, or the possibility that some unwitting customer might spend $40K and never uncover the problem. Have you noticed how much better a magazine The Absolute Sound has become in the last year?
I dropped my subscription to TAS. I still get Stereophile. The TAS guys rub me the wrong way, particularly when it comes to advertising and getting reviews in their rag... You advertise first, and then you get the review if you know what I mean...Stereophile on the other hand did a positive review of my cables last year an I've never advertised in their rag and they never asked.
Your opinion as a manufacturer is interesting. As a general reader though, I am impressed by TAS's fresh format & expanded coverage (particularly it's long, sophisticated music review section, contrasting with Stereophile's sad retrenchment in this area). In general Stereophile has shrunk down visibly in ill health, as the TAS (and its sister publication The Perfect Vision) have expanded.However, the opinions of TAS reviewers have always veered toward purple, drunk descriptions of exalted SOTA sonics that, if taken without a big grain of salt, may lead one to doubt one's own ears. In the current issue, for example, the Kuzma vs. Walker hi-end shoot-out will disappoint the Kuzma owner by making him feel like he just spend $28K on the second-best lay in the world.
but I don't buy that a wiring error on the polarity switch caused those horrific numbers.
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Ozzie, doubtless there will be a follow-up measurement of a new review sample. Yamada-san's brother generously helped me design a nice analog filter for my modded SCD-1, so I'm rooting for Zanden for now. But at these prices it is tempting to suspect that the gods have feet of clay.
Given the rather big hint that Srajan gives in his review, I don't expect the new hierarchy to stay put for long. External master clocks that orchestrate the behaviour of the rest of the player are the 'tweak du jour' for high end players. It would appear that Zanden has seen the light and I know of a UK company (Coherent Sstems) that have their own external master clock tweak which they use, ironically, on Esoteric/Teac players.With this in mind I'm looking forward to the AMR CD-77 review with renewed interest. Should prove interesting to say the least.
Big J.
Some are eliminating the master clock altogether and using asynchronous clocking/locking on the DAC boards...
Thoughts from above hit the people down below. There are people in this world who have no place to go
"Some are eliminating the master clock altogether and using asynchronous clocking/locking on the DAC boards...."Not since the introduction of the Redbook CD have I experienced a widely-accepted "new technology" that to me sounds significantly and consistently worse than what has existed prior to that. And when I mean worse in this case, I mean amusical and unlistenable.
The big problem isn't that the technology exists as much as it is becoming accepted as "superior" by cost-no-object designers. I liken it to the belief that monosodium glutamate is an essential additive for filet mignon.
Is that the same as / similar to isosynchronous?
Big J.
I keep being astounded by these humongous, ultra-expensive external clocks being made. Trying to improve the clock accuracy in ppm ranges, while the digital interface/cables going back and forth from the master clock will add their own flavor, not to mention the footer/shelf/power cord on the master clock.I would personally opt for a nice clock with its own stable PS as close to the DAC chips as possible...
I think the problem with adding or enhancing clocks is the added noise and RFI associated with such undertaking. Often causing more problems than it solves. (I think the chips should *not* be close to each other- For improved precision is offset by mutual RF interference.)I've never heard a digital rig that utilized complicated clocking and/or D/A schemes that I thought performed any better than simpler designs.
I think the biggest problem with digital designers is that they look at the potential improvements in a new design or method but totally disregard the potential consequences. Hence the overall sonic quality of digital audio products over the past 15 years has gone mostly sideways, if not even backwards.
I'm encountering more and more stories about people being surprised over how good older digital products sound. But if one investigates how digital audio design has evolved, such findings should not be so surprising.
And to add the the confusion, most of these clocks are "word-clocks", not bit-clocks or master-clocks. Recently I discovered (while designing mods and a new DAC), that in most modern DAC chips, the bit-clock or even sometimes the master-clock is actually used for the final A/D clocking, not the word-clock. This is why it is defined more like a control-signal, not a clock in the timing of the datasheets.After discovering this, I understand why I2S interfaces sound so good and what clock to optimize for each type of DAC chip. Makes a tremendous difference. It would not surprise me at all to see an external word-clock on a DAC that actually uses the bit-clock for the D/A conversion. I've seen crazier stuff in this business....
Big J.
except maybe the DV-60..
I said "maybe" because the DV60 I listened to was probably not fully broken in. It sounded kind of etched and discontinuous, but who knows..
I actually like the DV50(S) sound very much, so I was kind of surprised.From what I understand, though, DV60 spends its $ on the video side, whereas DV50 has bigger/better power supply and more $ put into the audio side.
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