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I have upgraded my sytem with a much better power amp.
Very strangely I am finding some previously bad sounding CDs of mine now bearable, even pleasant.
The distortion, harshness, etc. are still present but also the music seems to emerge. Even MP3 ... no Ok I stop here, but I hope you get my feeling.
I am going mad?
Or moving to better quality system is beneficial also with so so recordings?
Opinions would be very welcome and appreciated.Kind regards,
beppe
Follow Ups:
I used to think more articulation would make my crappy recordings worse, but heard some highly accurate stuff make my crappy recordings sound pretty good w/o feeling the need to add any artificial enhancements. Getting the speaker to amp synergy right is a critical interface. Doing the same for the rest will not only improve things individually but as a whole. Thus far, got the best overall results after everything was within a similiar level of performance.Choosing between the source or preamp is like the which came first the chicken or the egg question. Try to identify which is the bigger bottleneck by comparing the differences between sticking a better source in front of your pre vs vis-versa. Good sources are cheaper and easier to find than preamps. Better sources yields a better treble, bigger soundstage, and more clarity and resolution, but the gap is more subtle than other component changes. I’ve had a love/hate relationship with every pre thus far, but the better ones seem to do a better job of doing nothing.
Believe what your ears say - not hearsay.
My experience confirms what you say i.e. " getting the speaker to amp synergy right is a critical interface ".
I think that some speakers are much more critical to interface than others, always on the basis of my personal experience.
And I wonder what I could achieve with less demanding ones.
From some posts here I understand that cheap but good digital is possible.
All in all I think my next steps would be speakers.
Thanks and regards,bg
And are you still using the dynaudio speakers you had some time ago?
Hello Mr Morricab,
in the end I purchased two little but nice sounding old british monos Albarry M408 that I had the opportunity to try with my speakers, that are still Dynaudio Recital 3 ways.
After many analysis I have come to the conclusion that Dynaudio speakers have usually a very natural tone (I think it could be due to their low distortion) that I like very much.
It is not easy for me to renounce to this natural sound.
The Albarrys give them some extra current that is indeed beneficial to drive better the high Qts woofers in them (23W75).
I should have purchased instead a model like the MSP 220 that sports a much better 24W100 woofer (Qts around 0,4 a much more "normal" figure).
Listening to some high Qts woofers I found them extremely powerful and fast, the quality that my current ones lacks.
Nevertheless with the new amps the final sound is now quite more enjoyable.
All in all I think that these monos will stay in my system for long.
I take the opportunity to thank you for all your friendly and valuable advice given to me in more than one occasion.
Kind regards,beppe
When I say "Listening to some high Qts woofers I found them extremely powerful and fast, the quality that my current ones lacks" I wanted to say "low Qts woofers" instead.Regards,
bg
I would just like to take a minute and commend all of those inmates responding in this thread for taking the time to help beppe61 in regards to his system configuration as well as future upgrades.IMO This thread is a great testimony to these individuals integrity and graciousness in offering up their wealth of knowledge FREELY to a receptive and "eager to learn" music lover in need of assistance.
Its my belief gracious correspondence such as these here between total strangers, some searching for answers and others offering their own related experiences in an effort to help someone system building, are one of this sites greatest attributes!
I know that we have the occasional heated debate that can be useful as well in terms of learning, yet its folks like these that brought me to this site and will encourage me to invest into it in whatever way possible to help keep it around for many years.
Great example guys, lead the way....
Regards /// Tim W... ///
Dear Sir,
I would like to take the opportunity to thank you and all other inmates for the very kind and valuable advice I have always got in this wonderful forum.
I am really trying to understand something more.
And I think that this forum is the best for this purpose.Kind regards,
beppe
beppe's politeness which to some people might feel 'anachronistic' is what makes even the grumpiest of posters here to contribute very positively. Looks like there are still some cultural islands around the world where politeness and gracious behavior in a public forum is still a priority. Sometime certain people's rudeness/impulsiveness in this forum really surprises me even though I come from a country where our politicians throw chairs at each other in the Parliament/Congress.
Yes Softwire engineer your observations reflect my penned intentions, its just stated wrong. I meant to infer the responding posters as using Integrity in their responses and yes, Beppe61s gracious responses to their suggestions. It takes two to tango, or in this instance converse.Regards /// Tim W.///
Dear Sir,I think that I am expected to be polite, at least.
After all I am here to ask advice that are very valuable for me.
Best regards,beppe
. . . that when you improve your system, bad records sound worse (or more records sound bad).Quite the opposite is true.
I think you are very right Sir.
And this belief can make some economical efforts for upgrading much more bearable.
Kind regards,beppe
I doubt it.When I have upgraded, if the component improves the system, I find I am able to listen to more of my collection (cd's that may have sounded upleasant or boring are now better). Sometimes a cd sounds worse in that the weakness of the original source is more apparent but the timing maybe better or I am able to hear further into teh recording in an interesting way.
Dont know if that helps or not................
You have expressed much better than me my sensations.
Even if the defects in the recordings are more evident still the playback is more involving, or as you say, interesting.
When the recording is good the result is very enjoyable, even if, as someone say, it is always digital after all.
Thank you very much.
Regards,
bg
Its a sign your component change went in the right direction,yes that type of thing does happen.
I do not want to be too pedant at all but I wonder if some bad comments about CDs' sound quality could be attributed instead to some deficiencies of the replaying system.
In a top system digital audio can be extremely good and satisfying in the end.
The challenge could be to get this a "human" price.
Kind regards,beppe
The logical inverse of "synergy" is where equipment problems interact to make the sound worse. The same thing happens with difficult recordings. There are some equipment problems that complement recording problems to make some CDs unlistenable. Correcting the equipment problems may not make the recordings wonderful, but at least they become sufficiently good that we can hear the music they contain.
One thing is not clear to me about "synergy".
More than try to find a combination of units I believe that it is more a problem to select equipment without problems.
Im my case I have replaced the previous power amp with another one surely better and the positive result is evident.
I think the same would apply to pre, source, cables and speakers.
As a first move I am quite positive after all.
I think that the next move could be the line preamp.
After all this old Bryston .4B I have is not a famous one I think.
I find it weak at reproducing soundstage depth at least.Thank you and kind regards,
bg
It is important to keep this in mind when selecting components to audition. A more expensive piece may not work better in your system, even if the basic matching is correct (impedances, power level, etc.). It may simply have a sonic character that clashes with your other components or does not suit your taste.I'm a firm Reductionist when it comes to audio equipment. Every phenomenon has some physical explanation, but, in my experience, the explanation may sometimes be very difficult to uncover. This is why I find it simpler to just accept that different pieces have different sonic characters.
I agree completely with your statement Sir.
There is no such a thing like "perfection".
Thank you again for your precious advice.Kind regards,
beppe
Hi Al,That's why it's ususally 'better' to get a line stage of the same make as the power amp. This way one can be sure of a 'similar sonic character'. This doesn't mean I'm against mixing and matching, but if the preamp turns out to be a good performer it saves a lot of hastle and time in mixing and matching etc..
AP
# The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men # Samuel L. Jackson (Ezekiel 25:17)> Pulp Fiction <
HowdyThat's another reason to pay attention to people's systems when evaluating their posts, whether the post is about hardware or software.
-Ted
This experience has been like cleaning glasses after some time.
I can hear more deeply in the recordings and after all I think it is a positive result.Kind regards,
bg
Hello Beppe,Congrats on the upgrade !
The 'better' the power amp the 'better' the music..Of course i'm not saying other items are not important or less important but the power amp is the final stage before the loudspeaker and if this stage is 'bad' then everything before or after it will suffer (no matter how great they may be ). A few years ago, and while I was trying to see which item is really the 'most' crucial in the set-up, I came to this conclusion.
Everything IS important but the most crucial is the final signal amplification stage IMHO..
Enjoy!
AP
# The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men # Samuel L. Jackson (Ezekiel 25:17)> Pulp Fiction <
the effect maybe more amazing and amusing is, as I say, that some CDs classified before as disposable now are acceptably sounding.
I wonder if moving up still in system quality they could get even better.
Sometimes I read about people rediscovering old CDs with better or just different players, but not with different power amps.
Digital audio acts in a very mysterious way IMHO.Kind regards,
beppe
I am feeling better.
As you very well say this experience has convinced me that the power amp - speakers matching deserves a particular care.
All the other rings of the audio chain are the same as before but the result is much more rewarding now.Kind regards,
beppe
You're welcome !...Also, a cd player upgrade should also do a similar
effect, in that previously unlistenable cds can be made to sound relatively better but would still have the inherent nasties (if they are present)..So altogether I believe the power/and or preamp as well as the digital source are the TOP 2 crucial factors for a good listening
experience.I know some folks would say that the 'sound' differences in digital players are not that much worth spending on but, no, the differences
between digital players can be staggering and revelatory most of the time, just like the differences in power amps etc..AP
# The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men # Samuel L. Jackson (Ezekiel 25:17)> Pulp Fiction <
I am still undecided about the next move: the digital source or the line preamp.
Currently I have a old Rotel RCD-970BX cd player and also old Bryston .4B line preamp.
I am hearing your advice, to throw away them all.
But, let's say, which one first?
Thank you again.
Kind regards,
beppe
Beppe, change the player first. Digital equipment does more damange than preamp or amp. I am using $250 amp with speakers that originally retailed for $3500 (Silverlin Sonatina). But I have spent so much on cables and upto $700 on a Squeezebox (with mods).
If you get playback even bad recordings will be more enjoyable (yes, you are not going mad. BTW, I see that you have progressed very well in this hobby ..small, thoroughly researched steps ,,very good)
I am sure, as you very well suggest, that my current old digital source holds back in some way the entire system.
But I am also sure, on the basis of my latest experience, than any better line stage could give a positive boost in the overall performance of my audio rig.
Often I have read in this wonderful forum about remarkable sound from cheap digital sources.
Actually I have already 2 cheap but nice sounding Panasonic dvd players (S35 and S47) and one other Sony also nice sounding.
Interconnects are another field where I feel I can improve reamrkably.
I think that some cables have a sort of "magic" touch with digital (i.e. Cardas_ I tried the Neutral Ref _ very good but too expensive for me).Thank you sincerely again for your nice words.
My best wishes,
beppe
Well..which one first ? I'd start with the cd player but then the current linestage may act as a bottle neck between the new player and the new amp. So, I'd try to simultaneously work on both upgrades, especially if the 'new' preamp will not be of the same brand as the amp. But then again, I guess that will also depend on your current allocated budget and how long you'd have to wait for the 2nd upgrade etc..In any case, this is definitely a move in the right direction.
Good luck Beppe and hope you eventually strike a good synergy
with the coming upgrades..:-) This is the real fun of this hobby, next to the music of course !Best wishes,
AP
# The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men # Samuel L. Jackson (Ezekiel 25:17)> Pulp Fiction <
I still think my current source can give some more performance with a better line stage.
What really matters, as the latest experience teaches me, is that the present line stage is replaced by another one surely better.
I will keep reading and posting in order to select a suitable unit.Thank you very much again.
Kind regards,
beppe
you will surely get a better performance. Doesn't matter which route you take first. The Rotel is a good mid-end cd player and will surely benefit from a 'better' line stage ahead of it. Playing around with some aftermarket power cords can also vastly improve its performance if you want to wait sometime till you upgrade it. Same goes for your new power amp and the future preamp etc..Good luck!:-)
AP
# The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men # Samuel L. Jackson (Ezekiel 25:17)> Pulp Fiction <
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