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In Reply to: Re: thanks for the advice.. posted by AbeCollins on May 27, 2005 at 19:50:36:
AbeCollins
My deep admiration for your courage in giving honest, founded and unambiguous advice. I have followed all your views on the Cary subject. Based on my own limited experience I could attest to the validity of your opinion, as an experienced Cary CDP user/owner . Although I do not have direct 308 experiences, my other experiences in the 303 vs 306 discussion clearly tells me that the tube output for 303/300 is not as impressive as others might claim. I heard the arguments about the need for tube change. If this is so, I am sure the 308T could also benefit from tube change and so one could never make any conclusion on which one is a better buy (I tried to avoid to say a better machine, better buy takes into account of price/performance and other constraints). In making buying decisions, one must base on firm views under given circumstances, and not based on hopes that an inferior choice would be overturned by tweaking.Not everyone would agree with your opinion or my opinion. It is important to share the opinion and let the recipient make up his/her own mind, by adding or subtracting his/her own biases and preferences. I found it amazing that many inmates prefer to criticise other peoples' opinions while they are afraid to tell their own.
Good luck!
Follow Ups:
Thanks for your comments. I have tried various NOS tubes with the 303/300 as well as the 308T. The 308T is a stellar performer in my opinion and a very good value within the Cary line.
I had the 308-T for several years. It was sold when I got the new 303-300. To me, the 303-300 is in a different league. The 303-300 is more musical and has more of the analog-like sound (to my ears, in my system).I do agree that for the money, the 308-T is the sleeper. I also agree that you are hearing what you are hearing.
My guess is that the jitter reduction in the 303-300 is the key element of the difference in the sound. It gets the swell and blending of orchestral music closer to analog or real music. The 308-T just did not have this quality. The 303-300 also has a more palpable image, much more substance, especially on solo vocal and choral music.
My amps are monoblock tube, that may make a difference. Also, I connect the CD player directly to the amps, no preamp in the chain. That could be another key reason why they sound different to me (a preamp could homogenize the sound of the 2 players with its own signature).
Anyway, to each their own.
My intention is not to slam the 303/300 but I sincerely feel that the 308T is so close in performance that it makes the 303/300 seem rather expensive. They are both outstanding cd players.For what it's worth, I observed that the 308T tube stages take their signal directly off the DACs while the 303/300 appears to have a couple burr-brown op-amps inline with the signal path to the tube stages.
The 308T uses the tubes for both voltage gain and output stage. And as you noted, no op-amps used in the tube signal path. The 303/300 only uses the tube as an output buffer stage coupled to an op-amp gain stage. I'd like to know how the 308T compares to the old 301, that also used the tubes for gain.
You're probably right about the 303/300 using the tubes primarily (if not entirely) as buffers. I didn't trace the circuit path but I distinctly see a couple burr-brown op-amps and a handful of transistors just prior to the tubes. See: http://mycollins.net/audio/Cary303-300/Cary-08.htmlIn the 308T I seem to recall seeing a couple tube pins hand wired directly to the DAC module - no transistors or op-amps anywhere in sight possibly providing a more 'pure' signal to and out of the tubes. That 8-pin DIP IC that appears toward the bottom right of the tube board is actually a LM555 timer chip which sets a turn-on delay for the tube output coupled through the small switching transistor adjacent to the relay. These have nothing to do with the audio path. See: http://mycollins.net/audio/308Tubes.jpg
Call me nuts but I stand by my 'audio memory' and recall being very excited with the performance of the 308T and how well it responded to some NOS tubes I tried. In particular, I really liked the Amperex Bugle Boys with the 308T.
I am not familiar with the older Cary 301.
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