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In Reply to: Re: Meridian G08 vs. Naim CDX2 posted by TBone on May 12, 2005 at 08:27:57:
In the US, I think the solo CDX2 is $5350. The Meridian G08, last time I checked, was $4000. But I wouldn't pay retail price for digital equipment.I acquired a barely-used CDX2 from a guy who was getting the CDS3 (smart guy; if the CDX2 is an inflatable raft, the CDS3 is a tugboat). I then compared the used CDX2 to (a) a new unit, and (b) a well-used demo unit. That's how I was able to discern the effects of burn-in.
I failed to mention that, in an overall sense, the Naim CDX2 and Meridian G08 have made me forget about my mothballed digital separates, which include the Mark Levinson No. 360 DAC.
It's too bad that the Simaudio Equinox inverts polarity. If they could correct that, they'd have a winner. So that left me to look upwards, and I ended up with the CDX2 and G08.
Honestly, when I tally up the score for the G08, there's a long list of positives, and only a few negatives. But the negatives, for some, will be fatal flaws. I know plenty of people who absolutely HATE the G08's sloooooooooow loading time. It takes anywhere from 12 to 19 seconds for the stupid drive to read the disc, and be ready to play. Though functional and cool-looking, the remote is not easy to handle and use. You need two hands to hold and operate it. With so many buttons, you'll never be able to use it in the dark. You need to push pretty hard, for the buttons to execute the command. Other than that, I can't find much else negative to report.
I think The Absolute Sound said that the G08 has a sound that elicits the "whatever you paid, it was worth it" response from the crowd. I whole-heartedly agree. That's exactly the vibe I get from the guests who have listened to the G08.
The G08 is all about class. Customers who seek that type of product probably will fall in love with the G08. But I do wish to point out that that isn't for everyone. Some people just want to get it on, and get down and dirty. These are the people who would pick the CDX2 over the G08.
Another scenario that hasn't been brought to light in the mainstream press is the CDX2's performance in headphone systems. I use the AKG K1000 earspeakers. If you have a clean, quiet amp, I strongly encourage you to try the CDX2 as your source. If you start flailing around to KC & The Sunshine Band, and your K1000s go flying across the room, don't say I didn't warn you :-) I commented that, through loudspeakers, the CDX2 had lousy soundstaging and a skewed tonal balance. But these criticisms evaporate, when the CDX2 is used with the K1000s. With Erasure filling your head, you'll become Vince Clark, mastering the keyboards!
Well, I hope that my tales tip off readers to the pluses, minuses, and in-betweens of these CD players. When we all share our experiences, and the context in which they occurred, we all become better educated. 'Cuz let's face it; this stuff ain't cheap, and not too many people are into it. We need to arm ourselves with as much info as possible, in order for us as consumers to make smarter choices.
Follow Ups:
The cost of some digital products is rising quicker than the sonic gains. As an example - im still not certain that i like the smoother sounding CDX2 over the original CDX. They share the same strenghts & compromises; but the CDX2 is considerably more money.The CDX2 is a cool $7k canadian. Add PS and it rises to $14k.
As a bare bones package - the CDX2 is indeed a fine player (like most digital players, its has pros & cons, though it cons are not well suited to my preferences). However when comparing it to its nearest competition - i think it is $2k overpriced up in these hills.
As for the price of a CDX2/PS - hells bells - I could pick up a used Linn CD12 and have about $4k worth of change left over. And I dont care if Naim used a nuclear reactor for its power supplies, an old CD12 will make a CDX2/PS sound slow footed, dynamically challenged, grainy (although the CDX2 is one of the least grainiest players i have heard) and certainly limited in bandwidth & extension.
Not to be hard on Naim, they are indeed a fine company. And they are not alone in overpricing digital components in some regions. This is not the first time that i have auditioned players that sounded excellent, but to my ears did not compete well at the upper price range.
Cary digital up here in canada had the same issue. Upon auditioning the 306/200 - i agree that it sounded quiet fine. It had excellent extension, good dynamic power and fine bandwidth, but it was always grainy and a touch sterile in comparison to some others. That said - it was certainly not $3k better than a Sim Nova (i still prefer the Nova to the 306 - and possibly even the CDX2).
Up here in canada - i heard the recent BAT player and the AR CD3 - both excellent sounding players - yet both priced around $8k. Once again - as good as they sounded - to my ears - they did not merit that kind of extra coin when compared to the competition.
To me - the digital sweet spot sits around $2k - $4k us ($3k-5K canadian) you will find a number of players that sound truly excellent. Ok - preference creeps into this equation but that said - a variety of players exist at what i consider reasonable prices. The Ayre and Sim come to mind, even the meridian 588 retailed around $5k canadian - 588 being the best Meridian i have heard to date.
The Meridian G08 seems to be priced at a more reasonable point.No argument from me, if you have the money, if you justify the performance to cost - go for it.
You said ... "But I wouldn't pay retail price for digital equipment" ... and i tend to agree, except that i am willing to pay retail given that the cost is reasonable to start with.
TBone
Thanks for your post, and I'll shut up about it, - but the "value" of digital these days is falling like a rocket-slide to oblivion....
Posted this last fall-
More $ buys 1) better treble, 2) bigger soundstage, and 3) more clarity and resolution but the performance gap @ 1k-to-3k is ~10% and < 10% @3k to-SOTA. Kinda like going from 16 bit to remastered to audiophile recording. Wish I could appreciate what others are hearing, but 3x more $ for 10% performance gain is tough. Another problem is alot of the transports are nothing more than OEM $60 computer cd-drives...not kidding, so buying used with no warranty transfers, and too many moving parts is a wildcard.I think a lot of the top dog dedicated units have seen there day in the sun. Seems like the market conditions, hi-rez formats, abundance of <1k units, etc. have caused companies with top dog units to abandon further advancements on their top end stuff, focus on universals players, and throw their best redbook advancements into their lesser priced units. I found the units in the 3k price tier to be the sweet spot much better than lesser priced units and a stones throw away from the top dog units even from the same manufacturer.
The SOTA cdp are great, but upgrading other stuff seems wiser in terms of diminishing returns, value, and ROI.
Believe what your ears say - not hearsay.
> > With so many buttons, you'll never be able to use it in the dark. < <But that's why it's backlit. All you have to do is push any button and the lights come on. I use the function key as it's the bottom left so it's easy to find and it also doesn't adjust anything on the player. I've also not experienced anything like the load times you have. My unit regularly takes six seconds, which allows me to put the previous cd back on the rack and to get seated and ready to listen.
Cheers,
Damn, I wish my unit loaded that quickly! It's good for you to post that. Now, people who are interested in the G08 are tipped off that they should check to see how long their unit takes to load and read a CD.While one person loads a CD, another takes a stopwatch, and times how long it takes for the display to read the TOC [which indicates that the CD is ready to be played]. Once the CD is read, the operations are quick. While my unit takes forever to load, I feel I can go away, take can take a whiz, and come back (j/k!).
The display's brightness can be adjusted. However, during the day, when sunlight floods the room, the display is hard to read.
Don't laugh. While burning in the G08, I used it with a Creek OBH-14, Wright Sound WPA3.5, and NHT Superzeroes. I used stock powercords, an API Power Pack II, Kimber Timbre-0144 [the OBH-14 is single-ended only, so no balanced cables here], and 4TC. The sound of this throw-it-together ragamuffin system was superb. It had a sense of textural believability that went far beyond the small size and relatively low cost.
And of course, when I used the G08 with true high-end gear, its classy sound took center stage. But that got me thinking. Many SET amps do a wonderful job of preserving the music's flavor, texture, and feel. But if the source isn't capable of providing that flavor, texture, and feel, forget it. But a-ha, the G08, especially for redbook CD, does a terrific job in extracting flavor, texture, and feel from those encoded bits [obviously, the better the recording, the better it'll sound. But the G08 won't take a bad recording and mercilessly shove it in your ears]. Combine the G08 with a nice analog rig, and you're set to enjoy BOTH CD and vinyl.
Just because the G08 has a "classy" sound doesn't mean rock fans should turn away. The G08 doesn't add any grit or grain, and doesn't shut down the soundscape. So Dokken's "Beast From The East" has never been so listenable. The G08 doesn't add any more distortion or smear the instruments on Whitesnake's eponymous album. The keyboard heaven intro to "Here I Go Again" is marvelous. And when the guitars rip on "Bad Boys," your ears aren't unceremoniously assaulted by more noise. The G08, unlike so many other CD players, does not shut down the top end. Thus, Alex Van Halen's cymbals on "When It's Love" are allowed to shine, shimmer, and lead the rhythm. The G08's midrange purity allows us, finally, to hear the glistening tones on Joe Satriani's "The Snake." Too many CD players put a lid on the soaring sax on INXS' "What You Need." Not the G08. I've heard CD players take Kim Carnes' "Bette Davis Eyes," and make it sound like a grainy, muddled mess, like U2's "With Or Without You." The G08 preserves "Bette Davis Eyes'" cool, eerie, sinister, ethereal landscape. It's as if you can breathe in the fog. That's what's in the recording, and that's what the G08 decodes.
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