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In Reply to: Why is it concomitant with the enjoyment of one's gear to posted by bjh on May 8, 2007 at 13:20:56:
I think high end audio is a lot of fun. I've bought and designed high end stuff for a long time and had a wonderful time with it. As time passed, and I learned more about psycoacoustics, I began to play with the idea of what people hear versus what the sound waves do. Look at the image above. The two horizontal lines are the same length, but your brain insists that one is longer. When you put a new set of speaker cables in, listen, and think "that sounds better", your brain is doing the same thing as with the lines. It may actually sound better (or worse), but in most cases, you really can't tell.
Follow Ups:
.....Maybe your brain insists one line is longer? Surely you are not suggesting you know what other peoples brains are insisting?It seems to me from this and your initial post you are assuming YOUR experiences are relevant to everyone else? IMHO such assumptions are extremely arrogant as well as ignorant.
IMHO the absolute biggest varying factor in different audio systems/components is the individual listening to it.
Of course YMMV.
Smile
Sox
I think the point was that, in very broad non-technical terms, that all brains function in certain ways. This is an optical illusion and will work on all normal functioning brains due to the manner in which our senses gather information and which is then processed by the brain.I really didn't think it was a very good analogy for this discussion. This illusion is an unconscious process. Rating or judging a musical performance or the musicality of a system is conscious. Therefore expectations, past experiences, bias and a host of other influences impact the subjective listening experience. A better explanation is that if one spends $15,000 on an audio system is just HAS to sound better because, damn it, I spent that much money. In reality that may not be the case.
Other psychological influences may also occur. As an example Freud could make a phallic symbol out of anything and suggest that male are always compensating. Hence, the larger the symbol the greater the compensation. Big cigars, sleek sports cars, huge speakers, the most expensive turntable.....well....they all suggest greater compensation.
How much do I compensate. Hmm....well only my wife will ever know. ;-)
Regards,
HB
….Your assertion is complete and utter BS. What is a normal functioning brain? You should well know that “illusion” is completely subject dependent.You say \\\A better explanation is that if one spends $15,000 on an audio system is just HAS to sound better because, damn it, I spent that much money./// Again, maybe you think like that but many don’t. Do you think the more expensive wine is the better it tastes? Do you think the more expensive food is the better it tastes?
You go on to say \\\In reality that may not be the case./// Exactly, I totally agree. So WHY do many relate expense with better sound?
If there are two identical audio rooms with completely different audio systems in each and 100 people listen to both systems resulting in 99 liking system A & 1 liking system B is the result relevant to anyone else wanting to listen to the two systems? I say ‘no” for two reasons. Firstly, I don’t care in the slightest what system anyone else likes only what I like. Secondly, IMHO the opinion of the person who liked system “B” is just as relevant to me as the opinions of the 99 who choose system “A” so therefore the result of the “test” is absolutely useless information for me.
Freud doesn’t interest me. Some people are typical and some aren’t. What does that tell us?
Smile
Sox
Hmmm..."complete BS". I think not. Research based on a controled study using scientific method provides evidence that my assertion is not BS. Without being forewarned or prepped almost every person will see these two lines as equal in length. Its how the brain works together with our senses. Of course there will be people who do not see the illusion and can determine which line is longer and which is shorter. Without a sampling to refer to I can not give a definitive answer. However my best educated guess is that those who do not see the illusion would be 2 standard deviations from the mean. That translates to, if I remember correctly my bell curves, less than 7% of the total population.In a sense you are correct. It is not an "illusion" that a more expensive system sounds better. It would be a dellusion as expectation, experience and other environmental factors influence perception.
As for 99 liking system A and 1 liking system B. Yes, of course everyone should choose what they like. Still, if 99% of people prefer one system over another there is a reason and that could be relevant to my choice. For instance if I had to choose one of these systems with out listening to them my chances of liking the system would be greater with system A. As much as we might like to think ourselves independent of influences, it is simply not the case. Some people drink pepsi over coke because their friends drink pepsi or drive chevys because dad did. Some people go with the crowd because they find comfort in it and some reject the crowd to stand apart.
Bottom line, systems do sound different and people also hear what they want to hear.
Peace,
HB
.
No Guru, No Method, No Teacher
;-)
Stop picking on me, Bully! :(
No Guru, No Method, No Teacher
Didn't mean to hurt ya'
Just kiddin'!LOL
No Guru, No Method, No Teacher
Got some real growin' up to do first. And like that's gonna' happen any time soon. ;-)
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