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In Reply to: Not surprising... posted by mkuller on March 21, 2007 at 10:32:08:
In Reply to: Re: Characteristics of consumer-oriented audio publications posted by John Atkinson on March 21, 2007 at 04:23:25:
>...they were unpopular with the magazine's readership.>
The pro-DBTers are a very tiny but vocal minority of audiophiles.Please don't categorize me among the DBTers who favor "quick-switch" ABX machines. - I favor blind testing in general, (in ADDITION to conventional reviews), and I would favor letting the SF staff determine what procedure to follow.
And then there are the people who hear about DBTs and think it's a great idea but don't really understand about the rigorous methodology, the statistics involved and the expense to do it right.
And then once you're done, you've shown that differences between a tubed amp and a solid state amp can be identified blind.
Yawn.Yes, some people find, after extended listening, that they prefer the distortion inherent in "tube sound" despite the fact that such distortion might have caused them to downgrade a tubeed component when listening to it in a blind comparison. Nothing wrong with that, but what's new? - Yawn.
"I think most people just want to be entertained reading about audio equipment."You're certainly welcome to your opinions, of course. Some of us want to listen to good music on the best equipment available within a rational budget. And we are sometime helped toward that goal by reading equipment reviews in SF and elsewhere. (SF has noted that the equipment reviews continue to be the most popular articles.)
Follow Ups:
...reading The Audio Critic instead of Stereophile.They are proponents of DBTs.
> Yes, some people find, after extended listening, that they prefer the distortion inherent in "tube sound"...>
LOL! As opposed to the distortion inherent in transitor sound?
"LOL! As opposed to the distortion inherent in transitor sound?
That statement sounds like something Aczel would say."-- Yes.
Suggest you read the article on "valve sound" available online at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valve_sound. - Note the paragraph that begins: "In particular, it turns out that the "warmth" and "richness" typically associated with "valve sound" is DUE TO SIGNIFICANT LEVELS OF 2ND ORER DISTORION, typically coming from a single ended (and thus by definition class A) SE stage, often the output stage. This being a classic tube amp design."
I'm not saying that SS doesn't have it's own forms of distortion, merely that the preference for tubes may relate to a preference for the "warmth and richness" resulting from such 2nd order distortion.
as tubies would have us believe. That ever so slight rolloff of tubes has also been known to smooth out the high frequencies of metal dome tweeters and the dreaded digital glare of red book. This is often miscredited to such things as linearity...It sounds like Aczel makes objective observations and sticks by them. While never having read his widely trashed publication myself, at least he probably never had said that his opinion was subjective. Does he trash subjectivists as much as they freely trash him?
Aczel versus John Atkinson for a discussion of whatever comes up at Hi Fi '07. I'd almost forgo a live music demo at the show for that one.
Certainly not frequencies."Note the more extended ultrasonic bandwidth of tetrode compared with triode in these graphs: –3dB at 115kHz vs –3dB at 87kHz, respectively. "
> Aczel versus John Atkinson for a discussion of whatever comes up...>It was JA vs Arny Kruger a couple of years ago at a Stereophile Show, IIRC.
Kruger is a noted radical objectivist on rec.audio-opinion, rabid pro-DBTer and co-inventor of the ABX box.
Arny was more bark than bite. It was JA by a unanimous decision.
You can probably find a transcript on the Stereophile site.
Azcel is now just an embittered, angry old man - not much theater in seeing him get out-debated.
In the debate, Arny Krueger wiped the floor with John Atkinson. Atkinson wasn't able to make a single point against his arguments.The link below is to a rather self-serving article by Jason Victor Serinus article which includes a link to the an audio file of the debate. The link is in the editor's note just above the picture.
____________________________________________________
"Opposition brings concord. Out of discord comes the fairest harmony."
------Heraclitus of Ephesis (fl. 504-500 BC), trans. Wheelwright.
as tubies would have us believe. That ever so slight rolloff of tubes has also been known to smooth out the high frequencies of metal dome tweeters and the dreaded digital glare of red book. This is often miscredited to such things as linearity... HTML tag not allowed
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