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In Reply to: P.S. posted by Jim Austin on March 9, 2007 at 07:43:52:
if mercedes benz loans a car to a detroit free press writer for a review, and he loves it and gives it an incredible review...mercedes doesn't let him buy it on the side at a discounted price. in fact, a mercedes employee, or immediate family member or even an employee of a dealership can. the difference is, the writer has to view the car as a consumer, not an insider, or the review isn't a review at all.
Follow Ups:
First off, there's nothing "on the side" about the transaction. It's upfront.Second, I think you're missing an important point. The writer isn't gonna sell the thing for a profit--that's not allowed, and if it happens it is--and should be--a major scandal. So if he doesn't like the car/amplifier, he has no incentive to plug it (he wouldn't want it anyway). But if he does like it, and would give it a good review anyway, then there's no incentive to make the review even better. S/he can get the accomodation price with an accurate review, so why lie?
It's possible, I suppose, that a manufacturer stung by a lousy review might keep a reviewer from getting an accommodation price. But in that case the reviewer wouldn't want that piece of equipment anyway.
Maybe the point you're missing is this: I don't have to please anyone to get these deals. I don't have to make my review extra-nice. I probably don't have to make it nice at all. So there's really no motivation at all to deceive.
If you want a source of bias, there are far better ones to fixate on. For example, if you get to know someone and you find them to be honest, serious, and kind, but they've built (or imported) a lousy component, it can be, I suspect, pretty hard to write something bad. Personally, I've never had this experience, since I still know very few people in this industry. And there are many, many instances (some of which have been mentioned on this forum) where reviewers have given bad reviews to components made by people they know well and respect. And that's because those reviewers have a sense of integrity and value their reputations.
You are seeking, apparently, proof of people's integrity and the integrity of the process. That's an awfully hard standard to meet--higher than most people require. And that proof--absolute, systematic assurance--would come at a very high price, even if it were obtainable. There are good, honest people in this industry, including in the media. If you don't trust them, that's fine--don't read them. But a lot of people do, and with some obvious exceptions that have been discussed here, they deserve it.
"The writer isn't gonna sell the thing for a profit--that's not allowed, and if it happens it is--and should be--a major scandal."It is my understanding that there are normally conditions on such sales, the agreement to not sell the item for some specified period of time being common (I've seen 1 year mentioned). After that the item could be disposed of just like any other property.
"It's possible, I suppose, that a manufacturer stung by a lousy review might keep a reviewer from getting an accommodation price."
Let me think real hard about that... {crunch crunch rattle bang rattle bang bang} ... and the ansewer is:
Glad I didn't write that!
LOL
> > It is my understanding that there are normally conditions on such sales, the agreement to not sell the item for some specified period of time being common (I've seen 1 year mentioned). After that the item could be disposed of just like any other property. < <Well I've been told that I am NOT free to sell this stuff at a profit, even after the specified term. That said, I don't know what the policies of the other magazines are.
> > Let me think real hard about that... {crunch crunch rattle bang rattle bang bang}... and the answer is:
Glad I didn't write that! < <
I'm afraid I don't get your implication.
here's what i'm saying....1. if you get an amp for 5k and a consmer gets it for 10k...is the recommendation based on what you paid? or will you say 'i can remmend this is good for 10k'...also, how do know that at another (lets say bigger company) the writer is told the accomodation price is the manufacturer's cost of goods or employee pricing...or they can pay the money over time. this wouldn't be fair to you as a writer. same difference.
"if you get an amp for 5k and a consmer gets it for 10k...is the recommendation based on what you paid? or will you say 'i can remmend this is good for 10k'..."Aren't you implying that the review is written AFTER the reviewer gets the accomodation price?? That doesn't seem to be what happens. AFTER the review, if the reviewer liked it (and supposedly better than what he currently uses as a reference) he buys it for the accomodation price. Still looks like a meaningful endorsement to me. And it certainly doesn't mean that the accomodation pricing buys an endorsement!
manufacturer...distributer.....retailer...consumer. other than the consumer, each or all of these links generally get accomodation to purchase at some stated discount. they also are, without question, part of the sales effort (and entitled as aperk of compensation), and its their job to sell product from the manufacturer. if it is the reviewers job to sell product, then they too would be part of this chain, which would make it less than objective. if that's the case, then that's the case.
The prices are different along the chain because of overhead costs added at each step. Very basic concept. A reviewer gets a product sold, essentially, as "factory-direct," so the mark-ups that result in the street price simply don't apply. There's no conspiracy, no quid pro quo. Those who think there are have too much time on their hands.
...but it's easy to answer. Value is a very subjective thing. I can't even begin to say whether it's "worth it" to a particular consumer. That's a decision consumers have to make for themselves. Of course it IS legitimate to make comparisons to other products at similar price points (which is widely done). But how much it would cost me makes no difference in those comparisons.There's a place near me that makes $18,000 speaker cables. I would not buy them even a fifth of that price. They're impressive looking things--like firehoses with a space ship on each end--but cables just don't make that much difference to me. Still, I know (of) at least one person who owns a pair. That doesn't make him wrong and me right, or vice versa. We have different priorities and different notions of value.
So the point is, I don't make such judgments for consumers. I don't think most other reviewers do either.
< < There's a place near me that makes $18,000 speaker cables > >Your info page on the Audio Asylum indicates that you live in Maine. Assuming that you are referring to Transparent, that is their *second* to the top product. A 10' pair of their top product costs $30,750, at least according to the price list linked below.
Unless of course, you were talking about accommodation pricing!
I THINK the $18K pair was top-of-the-line the last time I was there, but that was several years ago.Nice listening room.
.
No Guru, No Method, No Teacher
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