|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
81.152.194.92
In Reply to: You probably haven't been reading TAS that long..... posted by Bob Rex on January 23, 2007 at 05:56:38:
"It's the sound of real (read acoustic, not amplified or electronically modified) instruments in real space"the lattitude in this statement is such that, you might just say it is the equivalent of asking how long is a piece of string. Having a chamber orchestra play in the QEII hall and my local Bishopsgate institute hall both qualify but the resultant sound will certainly not be the same, so much for absolute sound :-).
Music making the painting, recording it the photograph
Follow Ups:
Not at all... Take the sound of a violin. If the violin is properly recorded and reproduced, then it should sound like a real violin (not steely or lacking body), no matter what the sonic imprint of the hall. In and of itself, this is not an easy task and many system will probably fail in some way. And that's just a single instrument!The real problem is that in order to truly follow this philosophy, you should have access to recordings of materials where you yourself have attended the recording sessions. Pearson did this at one time, John Marks has the proper recordings, so do Atkinson and Greene. Beyond that, the list of people truly qualified to review in this manner is extremely restricted. I believe the number of manufacturers that follow this paradigm is even fewer. Weisfeld and Wilson come to mind and that's about it.
Looking at the response you have got I better be more specific"Not at all... Take the sound of a violin. If the violin is properly recorded and reproduced, then it should sound like a real violin (not steely or lacking body), no matter what the sonic imprint of the hall"
A violin in a highly reflective small hall will sound steely especially to those who seat in the front rows, lacking body is another thing entirely that most likely has to do post-recording processing. At any rate, when I think about it now, many audiophile recording companies especially does that employ minimalist mic'ing techniques go to huge lengths to find suitable halls for recordings, obviously they feel that the sonic imprint of the hall has some influence on the final product.
Ironically, the recording technique that seeks to minimise the influence of hall on the tonality of the instruments is close miking and not without justification as proximity to sound source has an effect to the overall perception of tonality, it captures the sound of the instrument at a location where ordinary listeners will never seat, and as result the overall tonality is somewhat different.
As I mentioned earlier, I wish I could agree with you but I cannot, I remember an incident a while back where a composer about to listen to a performance of one of his own pieces commented on the deleterious effects of the hall acoustics on the sound of the orchestra.
Music making the painting, recording it the photograph
"A violin in a highly reflective small hall will sound steely especially to those who seat in the front rows"Only if it is a cheap shit violin or a really bad musician. Have you actually done this?? My ex-girlfriend use to practice in our 25 square meter main room. It was sometimes VERY loud but NEVER steely sounding. Of course she was playing on only top shelf instruments. I have done several recording sessions with here in small studios (music studios not damped recording studios) and small concert halls and even standing 1 or 2 meters from the instrument it would never be called steely.
You probably right that lacking body has to do with the processing or the recording equipment itself (if it is cheap then you can get a sound lacking body).
"As I mentioned earlier, I wish I could agree with you but I cannot, I remember an incident a while back where a composer about to listen to a performance of one of his own pieces commented on the deleterious effects of the hall acoustics on the sound of the orchestra."
Be that as it may the deleterious effects of the playback chain on the realism can be much more extreme. Live still sounds live regardless of so so acoustics. It is this "liveness" that is lacking in most systems.
"Only if it is a cheap shit violin or a really bad musician. Have you actually done this?? My ex-girlfriend use to practice in our 25 square meter main room. It was sometimes VERY loud but NEVER steely sounding. Of course she was playing on only top shelf instruments. I have done several recording sessions with here in small studios (music studios not damped recording studios) and small concert halls and even standing 1 or 2 meters from the instrument it would never be called steely."The sound of a violin is greatly influenced by the strings, there is no way a gut stringed violin will sound steely no matter how badly played, it simply not part of the sound of gut stringed violins, On the other hand a steel stringed violin may well sound steely and probably will sound so depending on promixity and the music program. However, the upshot of using steel strings is that they are louder than gut strings and as a result the sound is projected further. That said, even a gut stringed instruments will sound strident if listened to in close proximity on an energetic music program. And in both cases, a highly reflective hall will make it worse.
Music making the painting, recording it the photograph
"The sound of a violin is greatly influenced by the strings, there is no way a gut stringed violin will sound steely no matter how badly played, it simply not part of the sound of gut stringed violins,"No one is using gut strings unless they are specifically trying to replicate a period piece. For example Baroque music played on Baroque instruments. If you are playing on a stradivarius violin, which she was for one year, then you put the best strings you can on it, which is to say that yes, the strings matter but a top violin will likely have the best strings available. They will use strings that result in maximum projection of sound (for big concert halls) and also good sound (as judged by the musician).
"That said, even a gut stringed instruments will sound strident if listened to in close proximity on an energetic music program."
Again, it depends on the instrument and the skill of the musician. You can be point blank with a very agressive passages and it doesn't sound how you are describing. OR you can be relatively far away and its like fingernails on a chalkboard.
I lived through months of Paganini Caprices in my apartment (she eventually played four concerts here in Switzerland where she performed all 24 Caprices...not many attempt this). There is not a more generally agressive repertoire in existence for the violin. If not played well and on a good instrument the result will be most unpleasant. However, when played well and on a good instrument the sound is rich, full and musical and not steely, wiry etc.
Will it be loud? Of course! If you have never heard a top violin played in a very loud space it is amazing the acoustic power of such an instrument. It can make your eardrums pulsate! But that is not the same as steely, wiry etc.
"And in both cases, a highly reflective hall will make it worse"
Most music halls tone down the violin not make it worse. This is especially true if you are sitting further away where most violins will sound positively sweet.
Harry just shakes his head when folks head down the "in which hall?" direction. While they certainly vary, your choice of venue does not change the characteristic sound of an instrument.
Hi-Thanks for the mention.
Ray Kimber has made some great recordings, and John Atkinson used Ray's proprietary mic array on Bob Silverman's Diabelli Variations project.
Later,
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: