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I have installed the new 72V DBS packs for my Panther 1mtr RCA interconnect and I'm very pleased with the results of the upgrade from my 36V DBS packs. The new 72V DBS results in a more open three dimensional transparent sound with better transients over the whole frequency range. The sound is now rich, full, more air, a danker background and you here more subtle details. It's like I have bought a new interconnect. With the DBS upgrade you will get probally 95% or more of the performance of the AQ Colorado IC.
Cheers,
Johan
Follow Ups:
I spoke to an Audioquest distributer and he told me that the differences between a Panther 72V DBS and the Colorado IC are small.
I know of a case involving an active interconnect cable (NOT Audioquest, but not DIY) that sustained physical damage. The bias DC took out the source output driver and destroyed the direct-coupled amp. Fortunately, the speaker survived.I don't know exactly how the cable was damaged, but this event suggests caution for anyone with small children, large pets, or clumsy fingers.
My friend built, months ago, some 72V. battery packs based on very inexpensive flashlites and which would house 6 of the 12V. batteries AQ uses. He sort of put them aside for a while until we started discussing this thread and our many 36V.-DBS'd Jaguar, Panther, and Cheetah cables. He reminded me of his 'old' 72V. batteries, I asked if he could add multiple-oulet jacks, and BINGO to my house they came!Here's the battery pack with a triple outlet...
...and here is the 5-outlet pack, feeding 2 Panther and 3 Cheetah cables.
Since the DBS system draws 'no' current, one battery can feed many cables; I have 3-, 4-, and 5-outlet batteries.
I'm no GEA so I didn't hear any differences after installing these, but I 'know' the system will sound better soon. :-)
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Tin-eared audiofool and obsessed landscape fotografer.
http://community.webshots.com/user/jeffreybehr
Hi,The DBS also works as a shielding for RFI because for RF the batteries have a low impedance. If you have long wires for the battery cables there will be less noise reduction due to the higher impedance of the wiring. My advice to you is to shorten the batteries wires.
Have you lost your mind.95% of more performance with the 72v.The 36v is more then sufficient.While were at it why not consider 120v or better yet 240v.
Sorry for the outburst.It's just that reading this whole thread not one person said anything about the ingredients of the IC itself.This seems to me far more important then the DBS charge alone.
"...then (sic) the DBS charge alone."Think a little here, Fairbanks--each of us ALREADY HAS the cable.
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Tin-eared audiofool and obsessed landscape fotografer.
http://community.webshots.com/user/jeffreybehr
Do me a favor,If or once you purchuse the 72v DBS upgrade please do a review of it.I'd like to validate the substantial differences that original poster stated.I just find it hard to believe.That's all.
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Tin-eared audiofool and obsessed landscape fotografer.
http://community.webshots.com/user/jeffreybehr
The orignal poster was comparing the Panther to the Colorado,two differently made IC's.He said the Panther with 72v was almost the equvilent to the Colorado which has 72v.So I assuming from what the poster said that the Colorado's make up isn't that much different than the Panther.Sounds like a slap together Panther if you ask me.When first introduced the Jaguar,Panther,Cheetah had 12v and later changed to 36v.If you think about it why wouldn't AQ put a 72v on the Jaguar,Panther,Cheetah if they thought it would yield greater improvement.They must have thought the 36v was suffient.
Hi,When Audioquest first introduced DBS they thought that a DC voltage of 12V would be sufficient because 12V is higher then the audio signal. Later they discovered that increasing the DBS voltage gave more sonic improvements. They made three steps, 12V, 24V and 36V for the big cat series. AQ discovered that above 50V there was no sonic improvements so 72V is a bit of over kill. From a marketing point of view there is no need for further improvement of the big cat series. The new introduced river series have to be better. AQ always introduces new cables if there is greater sonic improvement. That is the reason why AQ did not put the 72V DBS on the big cat series. The Sky was the only IC with the 72V DBS.
Thanks for a rational explanation.Having never heard the Colorado I would think there are more features to it then just a 72v DBS pack.
Hi,The River IC series have now cold welded plugs and noise reduction. I noticed that the Niagara IC now has larger teflon tubes than the Cheetah IC. The DBS also helps to reduce background noise due to fact that the battery for RFI is a short circuit. My advice for people who already have a Jaguar, Panther or Cheetah is to buy a 72V DBS upgrade than buying a new IC from the River series. Unless you want a step forward in the IC range.
A 72v on the on the Jaguar,Panther and Cheetah?Your acting like you stumbled upon some great discovery.For the last time 36v is sufficent.
Let me try to explane. Is there more sonic improvement when you upgrade the DBS to 72V. Yes that is what AQ have done in the new Rivers series. Do you doubt the expertice of AQ?
...as if it's cast-in-concrete fact.Some of us apparently have heard sonic improvements going from 36V. to 72V systems. Why can't you accept that even if YOU can't hear it or even if no one can offer scientific 'proof', there can be an sonic improvement?
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Tin-eared audiofool and obsessed landscape fotografer.
http://community.webshots.com/user/jeffreybehr
I Give up.Have a nice day.
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Tin-eared audiofool and obsessed landscape fotografer.
http://community.webshots.com/user/jeffreybehr
I suspect that all respondents are quite familiar with the captivating 3 dimensional sound delivered by the AQ DBS ICs. If the IC can be improved upon by simply increasing the voltage at a reasonable cost, the prospect is most intrigueing.
Whatever,I'm content with the Cheetah and Jaguar at 36v they way AQ released them.If you think that a $150 72v DBS pack would yield greater improvment go for it.It's a hobby suspose.I however can't justify such an expense.
Hi,For me it was very simple. I bought the Panther IC 9 months ago. At AQ they tell you that the Colorado is much better than the Panther to encourage you to buy the Colorado IC. But I realised that much of the sonic improvement of the Colorado is due to the 72V DBS, so it is cheaper to buy the 72V DBS upgrade for the Panther than spending much more bucks on a new AQ IC. I'm interested in a direct comparison between the Colorado IC and the Panther 72V DBS IC.
AQ tells you the Colordao is better and rightly so because of some new features that are added to it.The Panther is of a different make up or rather an old design.What in the world are you trying to accomplish here.Your scattered brained all over this thread.
You do not understand marketing. AQ always tells you that they have introduced a better cable because they wants you to buy a new IC. In both cases AQ sells you a product and is Ok for them.
If you have a problem with AQ and think there's something shady going on I would suggest looking at other IC's.
I didn't notice it on their website but sometimes one can miss the obvious. ;)
Found it under 'accessories' on the Audioquest website. However, $150 seems to be a bit steep. I could sell my Panthers, add $150 and easily buy a pair of the fabulous Cheetahs.
...and AQ has NO MORE left, and that goes for Panther and Jaguar, too.
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Tin-eared audiofool and obsessed landscape fotografer.
http://community.webshots.com/user/jeffreybehr
They appear to be relatively available on the used market--i.e., Audiogon.
Hi,I'm interested in a direct comparison between the Colorado IC and the Panther 72V DBS. Has some take up the gauntlet?
I love my 36V Panthers, be great if they can be improved for a reasonable expense.
Hi,The upgrade for the 72V DBS Pack will cost you $150 including batteries.
Here's the battery for my DIY 58V. speakercable dielectric-bias system.
The bare-copper conductor spiraled around the hardwired speakercable is the DBS negative.
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Tin-eared audiofool and obsessed landscape fotografer.
http://community.webshots.com/user/jeffreybehr
Hi,I have waited two weeks for critical listen, but after a couple of hours you will notice the effect.
Cheers,
Johan
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Tin-eared audiofool and obsessed landscape fotografer.
http://community.webshots.com/user/jeffreybehr
Does any one have a sence as to how the Columbia would compare to the Colorado or the Panther. I just replaced a Python between my phono stage and my preamp with a Colorado. It was a Huge improvement. I now want to replace the Python between my pre amp and power amp. Another Colorado is beyond my budget. As a newbee to this asylum, your feed back would be greatly appreciated.
I've used the Panther, Cheetah, jaguar, Columbia, Skys and Colorado in one shape or another in my system.
VPI Superscoutmast/sig arm
Ayre P5XE
Ayre K1XE
Ayre V1XE or JC-1 monoblocks
Thiel CS7.2
Sony SCD-1
I find the Panthers to be much smoother and more refined than either the Jaguars and Columbias. But not as nice as the Colorados. Right now in my system i am using balanced Panthers from Table/CDP > Phono > preamp. And either Colorados or Cheetahs from preamp to amps. The more i listen the more I like the Colorados over the Panthers or Cheetahs, And plan to slowly change out all Panthers with the Colorados. The use one pr. of Skys from the preamp to amp. Speaker cable is Mont Blanc.
If I was on a restricted budget I would have no problem using nothing but Panthers.
At there used or closout prices I think they are the best buy in the Audioquest DBS line. Not quite the rock solid stage as either the Cheetah or Coloroado with a hair less detail and a hair more grain. But VERY GOOD ics. Much, much better than the Columbia and Jaguar. None of them compare with the Skys.
Just for the experiment. If you change the 36V DBS pack on the Panther for the 72V DBS pack you can compare the Colorado IC with the Panther 72V DBS pack. When I changed the 36V DBS for the 72V DBS on my Panther there was a huge improvement of the sound quality. can you tell what the differences are?
What you say makes sense and agrees with what AQ's Joe Harley says--that each step in their IC-cable line is an audible improvement over the lower-priced one. I've had Cheetah in my system in 2 postions--multidisc player (MDP) to preamp (3 front channels) and preamp to 3 front-channel power poweramps, the latter soldered into the amps.Because I recently installed an active speaker-management system, a dbx DriveRack PA (DR-PA), in my system, I needed more cable and chose NOT to afford more Cheetah. This time I went with all Panther from preamp to DR-PA and DR-PA to 4 channels of poweramps, and this time not soldered. The DR-PA uses all XLR connectors, and I installed those [AQ-brand] myself. I still use Cheetah from MDP to preamp.
With all these changes, my system has never sounded better, so the Panther must sound at least very good.
Subsequently I did a comparison of Cheetah, Panther, Herron Audio, and Grante Audio silvers, for a golden-eared friend who has not heard high-quality AQ IC. The test was single blind. He prefered the sound of the Cheetah, overall. On the others, he opined that the Panther was close but with very slightly less transparency, the Herron was very good but was warmer colored and less detailed/transparent. I don't recall what he said of the Granite, but it was somewhere in the middle.
Your comments about Columbia and Jaguar make sense as they both use polyethylene and not Teflon dielectric.
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Tin-eared audiofool and obsessed landscape fotografer.
http://community.webshots.com/user/jeffreybehr
I have asked Audioquest what the differences are between the Jaguar and the Panther and this is what Audioquest wrote:Panther is another level of refinement. The biggest difference lies in the dielectric change (Jaguar is PE Panther is Teflon) and this offers a more resolved level of information from the cable. This can be a negative with lower priced equipment, as the change can be perceived as being Hard or harsh verses a very smooth and forgiving Jaguar. But with the associated equipment (Sony scd-xa9000es and Accuphase E305) you are using I believe that you will be able to experience and appreciate the full benefits of the better material. More accurate sound staging and imaging, improved presence, and greater dynamic contrast are all tangible in this small but important upgrade.
I hope this helps!
Best Regards,
Joseph Strovas
Director of International Sales
AudioQuest
Hi,The Panther is taken out of production so you can buy one with a discount. The 72V DBS packs are sold for $150. Maybe this will help you.
How does one go about upgrading existing 36 volt DBS Panthers to the 72 volt pack?
Hi,Very simple. You order the new 72V DBS pack. The straps you cut into two parts cause they are too long. Remove the 36V DBS packs from the IC and place the 72V DBS packs to the IC.
Kewl news!I have thought about upgrading to the 72VDC DBS.
Have U tried the Colorado IC's in your system?
Cheers,
Pardon my buttinski...I just got a pair of the Colorado ICs and installed them Saturday. Still settling in, but initially what a GREAT upgrade from the Jaguar 36v ICs I used in the same position (pre> amp) for a week or so. The Jaguar (moved to CD> pre) were my intro to AQ DBS and I thought/think VERY good, but the Colorado are superb. All the attributes the original poster mentioned.BTW: I attempted to hook the 72v pack to the 36v Jaguar pack,just to see if it was "doable". No dice.
My only dissatisfaction with the Colorado is that the 72v battery pack is twice the size of the 36v case (no coincidence there I'm sure!) and there is much more movement/motion/looseness of the batteries in the 72v pack as with the 36v pack. Since I moved the pack from the IC and set it on Herbie's grungebuster material on a stable shelf though, this is at best a minor complaint.
Next, and probably not soon enough, I need to upgrade from the Jaguar.
Thanks Kenster for your reports/info on the AQ DBS ICs, they certainly helped guide me in this pleasing direction!
"I always play jazz records backwards, they sound better that way"
-Thomas Edison
"BTW: I attempted to hook the 72v pack to the 36v Jaguar pack,just to see if it was "doable". No dice."What makes them incompatible?
"Since I moved the pack from the IC and set it on Herbie's grungebuster material on a stable shelf though, this is at best a minor complaint"
I too have removed the batteries from my Volcano speaker cables and mounted them on Walker Audio resonance control discs which R firmly spiked to the cement floor beneath the carpet. Nice increase in what could be described as background stillness.
I have also removed the battery packs from my Cheeta, Panther and Jaguar IC's and mounted them on the equipment shelf with a nice improvement as well even though the short connecting battery wires makes this challenging but worth it!!
Even thought about making a heavy duty central battery unit but still just thinking about it :-)
"Next, and probably not soon enough, I need to upgrade from the Jaguar."
Yes, the Jaguar is a good place to get a taste of the AQ DBS line BUT the Panther is WELL worth the upgrade expense :-)
Cheers,
"What makes them incompatible?"The plastic casing around the mini plug is a different size/design. Mind you I did not spend more than a minute at this, but that's at least 40 seconds longer than it should take to plug in. Makes me wonder how the 72v "upgrade" packs fit. It would make sense that all the mini plugs are a standard size.
Maybe the entry level DBS (Jaguar, Columbia) just aren't made to handle 72v packs?
Panther next, unless I get another set of Colorado at a decent (cheap) price...
"I always play jazz records backwards, they sound better that way"
-Thomas Edison
Hi,You have to push hard enough to get the connector into the 72V DBS pack. The Jaguar can also be used with the new 72V DBS pack. Just read the instructions on the 72V DBS pack.
installed, I really didn't devote much time to the task of applying the 72v pack to the Jaguar.My bad for implying or suggesting they may not be compatible.
"I always play jazz records backwards, they sound better that way"
-Thomas Edison
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