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In Reply to: Kimber speaker cable 'inflated' with a tube posted by Kamigo on January 15, 2007 at 04:20:13:
I know someone that was inserting a 3/8" or 1/2" tube in the center and then covering the whole thing with polyolefin heat shrink. It's pretty easy to do. Makes for a pretty stiff cable. He was a Kimber dealer and swore by the tweak. One downside is that you loose some length when doing this. I use 12' lengths of biwired 8TC in my system, so this would be a very expensive experiment if it didn't work out. It should work for 4TC also.I wish I could tell you the difference in sound. I never had it in my system.
Regards,
Follow Ups:
Less conductive than rubber and more flexable
Kidding... You're right, cotton sounds better than rubber.
Q
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Cotton is hydrophilic, its dielectric constant for fiber/cloth is 3.9-7.5 see link
1.3 - 1.4 D.C. is for raw cotton in which air is a major constituent. So in which way is it better?The comment was that cotton is less conductive then rubber, neither are conductors they are both insulators.
Cpk,Not to hijack Elizabeth's thread - just thought some additional clarification might help everyone here.
There are many variables to evaluating the dielectric constant of materials. With cotton, as you point out, the amount of air and water in the material makes a difference.
With cotton, I recommend (anduse) a loose weave, almost a gauze, so the amount of air is maximized and the amount of water the material can hold is minimized. I also use pure, unbleached cotton, so additional impurities don't make matters worse, dielectrically. Overkill? Probably. But then again, that's what sounds best to my ears in my system.
YMMV. That's why there are so many different cable manufacturers, and highly rated cables, out there.
As for rubber, according to many different sites, the dielectric constant of rubber also varies: raw, 2.1-2.7; chlorinated, 3; hard, 2.8; isomerized, 2.4 - 3.7; sulpherized, 2.5-4.6; etc.
Take your pick and use what works for you. Generally speaking though, I don't see any figures quote for rubber that best decent cotton or Teflon materials.
So, in that way, raw loose cotton or Teflon's better than rubber.
Again anytime cotton is made into a fabric, woven, rope its dc goes up considerably from what it measures at its raw state. The closest to this in a processed state would be a cotton ball.The dielectric chart which most people go off of is the ASI instruments chart (which it looks like you are using) is a manufacturer of measurement instruments for dry bulk solids, like perhaps raw cotton, which a dc of 1.3-1.4 is given and what people incorrectly assume is for ALL cotton. The dielectric I gave was from a textile manufacturer who put it at 3.9-7.5 which is somewhat higher then the numbers you gave for rubber. I think it would be safe to say cotton rope is going to fall in that range somewhere.
My point being is that people are very caught up in dc numbers. R.Kimber suggested using a ski tow rope, nylon dc 4-5. Here is a post from rcrump using silicone rubber 3.2 or up, next to teflon for a interconnect, phono nonetheless. Which would be the same proximity as either the rope or tube for the 8TC.
> Posted by rcrump ( i ) on September 09, 2000 at 04:49:27:
> In Reply to: phono interconnect posted by Luca on September 06, > 2000 at 21:36:46:
> Here is a recipe that has worked well for me:
> 21 gauge solid core 4 nines silver w/teflon dielectric in a gentle > twist covered with silicon rubber hose and that covered with spiral > wrap for a standoff and heavy tin plated copper braid over that > hooked to just the load end. The signal and return are reversed as > respects directionality....I like Cardas SLVR connectors for phono > better than anything else tried....The trick to this is the spiral > wrap available from Ico Rally and probably others as it gets the > shield far enough away from signal carrying wires to not roll off > the top end, but close enough to quiet things down....I run > expandable sleeving over the tin plated copper braid and each side > is about 5/8" in diameter and extremely flexible....To set > directionality put the partially built unshielded interconnect on a > MOBIE, or equivalent, overnight and then listen to it both ways on > line level gear and the way that has no hot spots across the stage > (especially at the speakers) and has the highest image height is > the correct way....Then complete the shielding and finishing of the > interconnects, throw them on the MOBIE for thirty days and > enjoy.........Now those are both people who most have/had great respect for designs/opinions.
If you are using cotton as a dielectric and you think it has a dc of 1.3-1.4 and your conductor is not suspended in a loose cotton ball fluff well I think that is wishful thinking. That is certainly not what was going to be fished in the middle of the 8TC. Worse is that if you live on the east coast or northwest cotton will absorb some extra moisture in the humid summer months, raw cotton being more prone to this then processed. Having a hydrophilic material next to a conductor is not a good idea especially if that conductor is bare.I am not saying that the cotton doesn't sound good to you, I am saying that it is probably not because of its dc number which is what most people are lead to believe. It could be that cotton is a lossy material and does a good job at soaking up micro vibrations
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