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Hi, I'm a lucky guy... my father wants to buy me a new preamp/amp set. His identified either the ARC SP16/VS55 or the PrimaLuna Prologue three preamp/Prologue six monoblocks. (He's convinced it's a good idea to match amp/preamp sets.) He can't decide which would be better for me. Does anyone have any thoughts? Are there any obvious considerations we might have overlooked?thoughts:
-He's been comparing the amplifiers with his (entirely different) preamp, and thinks that the PrimaLuna sounds better with his speakers, but, on the other hand, my speakers (Triangle Celius 202) are more sensitive than his, and that might favor the ARC equipment.
-The PrimaLuna's are monoblocks, which is a sound I like.
-ARC's reputation for reliability. OTOH, PrimaLuna has gotten a lot of recognition for high quality, but they have only one distributor in the U.S.
-The Prima Luna is a little cheaper.
thanks for helping me think this through.
Follow Ups:
I had the Prima Luna 3 preamp here with my Aleph J SS amp. Had a lot of texture, too much to my way of thinking. Also, clarity seemed to be a bit lacking compared to the Music Reference RM5 preamp. It went back the third day.Now that I'm back to my repaired, 10 year old Music Reference Preamp, I'm much happier. More clarity, sweetness, and the textures are subtle, not in my face.
Thanks for the thoughts.Both sets have received positive reviews, here and in print, and are supposed to be well built. My father's impression is that the PL equipment sounds a little better (although given differences in equipment, that might not mean much). People emphasize that the PL offer bang for the buck, and Chuck makes an interesting point about the match with my speakers. All of that would seem to give the edge to the PL equipment.
mbnx, if you're still around, you think the answer is obvious. On what basis? I don't have that much experience with hight end audio equipment, and this will be my first tube gear. Certainly kentaja's point about customer service is a valid one. Do people think that whatever slight edge the PL might have in sound is overcome by ARC's customer service backing? How important is having that support for tube equipment?
Thanks,
Seth
ARC + built in USAPrima Luna = built in China
Do both sound good? Probably. (Keep in mind, I've not heard PL gear except at shows.) I have owned an SP16 for 4 years. It gave me exempelary service during that time with no ptoblems. I ran it with soild state amps thought Magneplaner speakers and it sounded great (Sunfire and Bryston). I've since sold it to move on up to an LS17 (still with the Bryston). ARC is both easy to deal with and readily available. Which would I choose for long term enjoyment? Probably the ARC if only because they've been there, done that for longer than just about anyone in the high-end and will be around far into the foreseeable future. Can I say the same thing for Prima Luna? Maybe. But until they have a proven track record over the course of a number of years..... Upscale Audio, through whom you'll go to purchase PL gear is a very reputable outfit. Kevin Deal is a great guy who knows tubes well. But I'd still chose ARC over PL.
Sonically, the SP16 is a full sounding preamp. (I assume you'll get the SP16 and not the SP16L linestage so you can have the option of going vinyl if you so choose - which you should.) I don't think I'd ever call the ARC combo lean or bleached. Rich and detailed would be my vote.
The best option? Try each set in your system and see which YOU like best. If your father is truly serious about getting you what you want then that's the only way you'll ever know for sure. Which ever way you go, you'll have a fine sounding setup. Enjoy.
Oh, and tell you Dad if he's looking to adopt another son.......
John Crossett____________________________
It sounds like English, but I can't understand a word you're saying.
as well as the manufacturer and the knowledge level/skill set, techie wise, of the user.The first tube amp I ever owned was a ARC. A power tube shorted out and it took out a resistor (a very ordinary event with older ARC amps) so the amp had to be repaired. My dealer wouldn't/couldn't repair it so it went back to ARC for repairs. No problem but for the expense involved. I had an identical excerience 3 times with a couple of Sonic Frontiers amps I owned, but the 2d and 3d time it was just a trip to a local techie and if I had any simple soldering skills I could have handled it.
I'm led to believe that this may not be a potential problem with new ARC amps. i.e. the 55, but if its important to you, ask someone who knows (the dealer/manufacturer). Some of the major manufacturers have fused the circuit so all that happens with a shorted tube is you take out the fuse. You replace the tube and the fuse and you're good.
PL has a fused curcuit - short out a power tube, you replace it and the fuse. The amp is also auto bias which means you never have to worry about it. For a tube newbie this is good. But, for a more advanced tubie maybe not so because you can change the amps performance by varying the bias setting. With the auto bias curcuit you're stuck with the factory setting. I have not been unhappy with my PL's but I would have liked to adjust my own bias. Also, by being able to set/check the actual bias you can monitor the life of the tube and change it before it dies.
Future service is always speculative. Unless you are a true insider you never know for sure if any highly respected manufacturer or dealer will still be around a few years from no. At this time if you buy you PL's from Upscale I can assure you he'll give you turn around warranty service (he has with an amp and pre-amp in which I created the problem). How he will service someone who buys one second hand, other than charging a fee I have no knowledge.
If I were you, considering these two products, I would go for the one which made my speakers sound they way I wanted it. If you like the sound I don't think you are going wrong with either the ARC or the PL.
Good luck in making your choice.
I purchased my VS 55 new in March of 2004. In December of 2005 a power tube blew and took a couple of parts with it. I replaced all the power tubes ($400) because ARC had moved to a different tube and a lower biasing. In September of 2006 another power tube blew. This time I replaced only one channel's tubes ($180). I'm sure my experience is worse than the norm but I'm glad this amp only has two power tubes per channel!
I don't think that either combo is a bad choice but I'd bet they don't sound anything alike. I tend to agree with kentaja thoughts. I've a long history with ARC products/service but I also own a PL3/5 set.The main problem I can see with the PL combo, and it was touched on in the Stereophile review is the PL3 has a bit of extra warmth in the low end. Its a great complimentary pre-amp for the PL5 which is short on bass but if you ever want to use a different amp it might not work as well as with the PL amps. I've tried it with several different amps I own and it wasn't a good fit, at least in a short listening session. I've not heard it with the PL 6 but I found it interesting that both the PL6's and PL7's were reviewed with the PL3. I think they are all designed to work together more so than being universal.
I've never heard the Triangles but based on reviews I read I would be concerned that the combo of the ARC's and Triangles might be a bit on the brighter/bleached side of neutrality. Just a WAG, but I'd be careful. FWIW, another WAG, I'd probably be much happier with the PL's and Triangles. FWIW.
I can't offer any advice relative to your choice but I can say that I use the ARC VS55/SP16 with Sonus Faber Cremona speakers and I love the combination. In the past I have had a variety of Conrad Johnson and Arc gear and this combination is the most musically satisfying I have ever owned.
ARC versus Primaluna and you even have to ask? ARC in a hot minute and never look back.-M
I would look at your second comment a little more closely.Not only does ARC have a sterling reputation, backed by 35+ years of experience, they are still in business and will probably remain in business long after many others are gone. No orphans with ARC.
ARC services and supports every product they have ever produced. No phone calls to service and finding out they don't want to mess with your gear any longer.
If you decide to sell your gear in a few years to 'upgrade' the ARC gear holds its value in the used market. Look at the SP-3 preamp; it sells for more now used than it did when new.
The Prima Luna gear does appear to me nicely built. And I am sure it sounds good as well. But at least for me these considerations pale compared to the long-term support and service I demand for my gear. This stuff is expensive!
Yep, I am an ARC fan. Is it the best sounding and best built gear one can buy? It is certainly amongst the very best. ARC's excellence extends beyond the performance of the gear.
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