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In Reply to: For a tube sound, is preamp or power amp more important? posted by Bolger on March 13, 2007 at 16:05:30:
Don't mean to hijack this thread, but I’ve been trying to introduce tubes in my system as well and reluctant to do it with the amplifier. My speakers are very finicky and greatly influenced not only which, but what type of amplifier mates best and opted to go with a solid state amp. Focusing mainly on the cd player or preamp, hear a much greater influence of tubes when used in preamps than cd players.Perhaps I need to listen to more tube players or ones specifically deploying tube as vs after the op stage, but after sampling a few CDPs with vs without tubes, don’t hear much of a difference. In some cases, actually felt the sound produced by tube players weren’t seemless integrated and were more of a detriment, colouring the sound and masking details.
In general, find the differences between solid state and tubes seemed to get less defined with the more elite products, but tubes have a uncanny way of expressing emotions that I’ve yet to hear a solid replicate. My system is dialed in with a passive preamp, but active tube preamps can magically “make the sound more real”. Unfortunately, most do so at the expense of transparency and clarity. Thus far, have climbed pretty far up the food chain and have only discovered two that could provide a strong enough argument in its own favor over my passive.
Am I missing another route or forming wrong impressions?
Believe what your ears say - not hearsay.
Follow Ups:
Go with a Monarchy audio M24 Tube DAC. It is a true tube DAC with no opamps. It is also not one of these no oversampling jobbies as it uses the BB DF1704 8x oversampling digital filter. The IV conversion is passive and the output/low pass filter is made with a SRPP tube stage from a single 6922 tube. Not warm and not cold...just right! It also has a completely separate preamp built in that has its own single tube SRPP gain stage. Also superb.As to tube amps; I currently have two very good sounding hybrids that work very well on difficult speakers (my Acoustat Spectra 4400 electrostats being a good example). The first is the Sphinx Project 14MKIII which is hybrid in the conventional sense, tubes on the input and MOSFETS on the output. No feedback and Class A to 20 watts.
The other one is the KR audio VA350i, which is a reverse hybrid in that the input and driver are FETs and the output is big bottles. This amp is a SET so Class A and no feedback but unlike other SETs it can drive normal speakers (it puts out 30 watts) and controls the bass like the best SS amps. It is now my main amp and as an integrated (passive) it is driven straight from the DAC. So I have tubes/fet/fet/tube in my system (yep only 4 active stages total from DAC chip to speaker.). Can't get too much less than that.
For something not very expensive and superb sounding I recommend the Monarchy Audio SE250 monos. These are hybrids with only 2 stages (1 tube and MOSFET output). They make 250 watts and 50 of that is Class A. Likewise, there is no feedback whatsoever. A perfect match to the M24 and really as simple a signal path as you can imagine (only 3 stages total!!!).
When I get a chance am going to revisit tube sources to compared ones with tubes in a buffer vs gain stage. Thanks for the heads up on the M24. Apparently BFS thinks it’s special as well. Based on the BFS review, it bested the Opera Droplet (which was sort of warm and fuzzy to me), but against a Reiymo would be a holy crap. By far the best I’ve heard in terms of replicating vinyl.
Believe what your ears say - not hearsay.
I am finding that it closes the gap to vinyl significantly.
Unless you have a VERY good tube preamp, you're probably better off going with solid-state or a passive. Passives can be incredible in system with well matched components that are suitable for a passive setup.I have found that TOO many tube preamps put a veil over the music and roll off the crisp highs and many people mistake this for "smoothness". Many tube preamps are also too "polite" lacking in dynamics and impact. If you like to polish the rough edges off of music that was intended to have rough edges, then you might like this sort of sound. I don't.
It's true that many tube preamps bring out a nice harmonic richness and spaciousness in the music but too many of them do it at the expense of full range frequency extension and powerful dynamics.The only tube preamp that I owned that seemed to have all the great qualities that tubes are known for w/o any of the weaknesses, was my Cary SLP-05 . It was very transparent, dynamic with deep impactful bass, and a nice crisp treble w/o being annoying. Add to that an incredible holographic and spacious soundstage with a natural harmonic richness and it was one outstanding tube preamp!
Yeah, I sold it so I could put together my home theater setup that I can enjoy along with others.
During my wonder lust quest to find out how an active could better passive, found tubes have a uncanny way of expressing emotions in terms that I’ve yet to hear a solid state (passive or active) preamp replicate, but had to go pretty far down the rabbit hole to find it with the least amount of loss in transparency.
Do you know what (if any) impact tubes have with sources or any thoughts on a tube cdp & passive preamp vs. a solid state cdp & tube preamp?
Believe what your ears say - not hearsay.
It has been my experience that tube preamps tend to impart more of that "tube magic" on the overall sound vs the CDP. But....As for tube CDP's, one of my favorites is still the Cary CD 308T. It was discontinued about the time they came out with the CD 303/300 which has a tube output stage and a solid-state output. I found the older and less expensive CD 308T more to my liking. It has a nice harmonic richness to it with good dynamics. I found the CD 303/300 to be kind of "soft" and "lean" sounding in comparison.
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Believe what your ears say - not hearsay.
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