|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
67.171.143.157
In Reply to: Enjoy Chinese amps while you can posted by nightdoggy on February 23, 2007 at 20:34:14:
nightdoggy,His point is that he liked the amp, regardless of where it's made. Just because economics create a situation where a worker doesn't get paid as much for assembling the amp as their western counterpart doesn't mean that the amp's not worth what he paid for it. Just how much do you know how this skilled worker lives? Just because he doesn't make an absorbent amount of money by western standards doesn't mean he doesn't make a very good living by eastern standards. Do you think for a second he might be very proud of his contribution to his company? In the end, you would not be saying what you said if the amp wasn't Chinese origin. Admit it, you just can't stand that the Chinese are doing better and better at building hi-end audio equipment. It would not surprise me that the Chinese will surpass many if not all western audio companies in the next decade. Of course, no western audio magazine, especially American ones, will give them that kind of press. Afterall, we gotta protect our own, right? I say, let whoever in this world try to build the best audio equipment and I will buy from them if I can afford them. Just wait till the Koreans and Indians (Eastern) get into the game, and twenty years from now, the Mexicans. The world's always changing, there'll be always be a next top dog.
Follow Ups:
world powers have always changed though out history. from Sumeria to Egypt to Greece to Rome to....our time will come. BUT, to sit back and get blindsided like the British in the late 70's/early 80's is not something I'm eager to experience.
we as Americans have been challenged in the past. remember the "japan scare" in the 1960's? thing is we always came back through innovation. not sure we are doing that now.
the last big rush of American innovation came in the late 1990's with the tech boom. one of the byproducts was affordable high speed. which allowed off shoring of the American and European white collar jobs. many being the jobs that created the technology in the first place.
you are right. as of now the Chinese are definitely more hungry than we are. and we will get trumped. we have SO MUCH overseas debt to Asia. wanna know why? because those countries are more than willing to finance our debt so long as American consumers keep buying their stuff!
all it takes is for china, japan and others to decide it's time to collect on their debts and our country is SCREWED!
yes, times change. but don't tell me you don't think it's a big deal that your country is financially fucked in the next 25 years. unless you are a billionaire, you are gonna be in a world of hurt given our national debt level and the state of social security as the baby boomers start retiring in droves.
true, you don't want to rely on social security as you sole income, but MILLIONS are going to have to. our national savings rate is NEGATIVE 1 PERCENT!
My point was that components of Chinese origin are overpriced. Yes, overpriced. Distributors are not passing the savings along to consumers. They're getting rich. Not dealers, not consumers.
Of course the Chinese are very capable of producing quality audio components. It's hardly rocket science as they say.
There are things lost to the consumer who buys China sourced high end audio components. One is readily available replacement parts. Another is Service Manuals which until now were considered an essential part of a product introduction and support cycle. Another is long term value and resale value. For these reasons you will not see Audio Research, Conrad-Johnson, Krell and other top shelf products for sale in Wal-Mart.
Nightdoggy,Oh, and I suppose buying Mark Levinsons and krells make you feel better because you think their distributors are handing you a bargain! Yeah right, it's all about making money. So you mean to tell me that a Chinese origin amplifier of equal performance to that of an American brand can not charge the same amount of money just because it's made in China? For now maybe because these companies are breaking into the field and want to increase customer buildup by offering lower prices, but soon, the prices will level out. And it is "rocket science" to build hi-end equipment or else you and I would be building them in our garage, let's not belittle these great engineers. The reason you do not see Krells selling at WalMart is not because they have manuals and replacement parts, both of which higher end Chinese companies such as Cayin, Consonance, and Melody do have, but because the average American audio equipment buyer is not going to paid the exorbitant (read: rip off) prices Krell, Audio Research, and CJ are charging! Oh wait, it's American made so it's got to be worth that much! HA! Not to mention the majority of WalMart shoppers would not know or care about our hobby and think we're all nuts to pay thousands of dollars for an amp. Oh, and those "distributors" you're referring to ... they're Americans! So your next door neighbor happens to make a buck and can afford to pay his mortgage, more power to him. If it pays your bills, you would too. Bottom line is, the Chinese stuff is still cheaper than American stuff and they last longer than you give it credit for. The parts are not crap, many actually use high grade parts that are readily replaceable. The products last longer than the normal warranty of a year (no shorter than their western counterparts), at which time, if any parts fail, you'd either send it back to the manufacturer (no big deal to send it to an U.S. distributer or even back to China, it only takes a week by air at MOST) or get some new parts and have it modded here. Not all Chinese audio products come without manuals and use inferior parts, the consumer still need to do his homework, but to lump ALL Chinese equipment into that category is just ignorant and prejudiced.
You make valid points. Prices will level out. I do think there are overpriced components out there. Perhaps those companies will move offshore or not survive. But the cost of living and manufacturing is skyrocketing in the U.S.
When I started out in audio 1972, there were 300 Yen to the dollar. Japanese equipment was a bargain and sold for much less than Fisher, Marantz, Scott and Sherwood. Now with 106 Yen to the dollar Japanese components are harder to find. Japanese high end is no longer sold here, except for Accuphase.
I buy products made in every corner of the world. If given the choice, however, I'll pay a little more to buy American. It makes me feel good. It does not make me richer.
Recently I purchased a Rogue power amp, a Quicksilver pre and two Quicksilver monoblocks. They are a good deal and perform well.
I admit that two early Chinese components I bought left a bad taste in my mouth (ASL and Jolida). Their quality is far better now, I know.
Global economics is a complex affair. Do what works for you. You have to survive too. I do not judge people. If you knew what my life has been like, you'd understand why.
Have fun with audio to enhance your love of music. That is all I try to do.
Aren't most of "American" product sourced to China and other eastern parts of the country? Wow, I didnt meant to post a thread about something that I thought was nice sounding, compared to many other "American" brands which dont sound quite the same but they are built here in "Amercian" soil. I have served my country in the U.S. Air Force and the U.S Army 82nd Airborne division did 2 overseas tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, also, did the blacks, asians, and latinos. Does it mean that they are not worthy of the their credit and sacrifice?Just because I viewed something, tested it and auditioned it and even liked it better than my "American" gear does it really mean that the "Chinese" "German" and whomever pleases to make good affordable and outstanding quality high end doesnt deserve their do credit? C'mon people lets stop this ignorance and prejudiced way of thinking.
Just because you can afford super high end gear, or pay the most for your stereo does it really, really mean that you have the "Best sounding system? Dont think so and if you do, well thats your opinion!
This is all a hobby and a passion plain and simple it is not about who has the best or who can afford the most "game" I've seen system that are considered "Budget" 5k to 10k that blow away many, many high end super expensive stereo's. I have spent over 9k on my system but I am not "RICH" by any means, just a blue collar worker providing my services to the City of Chicago as a Firefighter saving lives...
and now I "get" your moniker...one of the differences you heard in the two amps was the different kinds of tubes and circuitry application.
Larry
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: