In Reply to: Improved Marantz 9?? posted by Tube747 on March 21, 2017 at 10:56:17:
Well, you certainly have an easy one-- almost
ANYTHING will easily outperform a Marantz 9-- my
all-time candidate for THE WORST tube amp of all time.I had several. And all the "Mac" stuff as well-- even
the biggies-- the MI-200 and the 1000 mono.Back to the Marantz 9 and the "8".
The 8 used two EL34, had a two-diode solid
state rectifier, used ordinary parts and capacitors.Like the 9, it was finished nicely in Brown-painted
steel. The "8"-- and its later improved model
actually had a tiny window on music. You could almost
stand to listen to it, and it didn't blow-up tubes
like the 9 which used 4 EL34.The Model 9 was EXTREMELY unstable. Almost anything
would send one or more EL34 into running a "red" plate.
Thermal runaway, of course, and parasitic oscillations
Galore!The 9 also had ZERO bass by today's standards, and it
homogenized music into a mish-mash of signal collisions,
all vieing for your speaker's attention. Unstable?
Ridiculously so!To make matters even worse, capacitor-input imparted a
sort of "in a Tin Can" sound to everything it tried to
play, which it could not.The stock amp was "voiced" so that what it did reproduce
favored the midrange and upper midrange. No, it didn't have
any "highs" by today's standards. By leaving out important
parts of music-- by accentuating the midrange and upper
midrange (by omission of most else), the Model 9 became
popular among some audiophiles of the day who owned speakers
that favored the amp's tuning....Dr. Charles A. Halijak-- Dean of E.E. at Huntsville, Alabama
(Alabama State U.), used the Model 9 to teach students
WHAT NOT to do in designing an amplifier for music.Various students devised "fixes" for the 9's-- shall we say--
less than exemplary performance. Basically, low-DCR chokes were
applied utilizing choke-input, all negative feedback was
eliminated, plate currents were reduced, a Common-Mode
cancelling network was applied across the power tube's
cathodes, and across all power tube control grids..
The "9" gained bandwidth, actual drive-power, and stability.When all was said and done, you had a decent amp with 15 watts.
Of course, it had at least 10 times more power than the old
much higher watt rating because it was now a stable amplifier.Those crappy old electrolytic capacitors also got replaced
by film or foil types, or by military-grade Oils such as G.E.
Pyranol, etc.Better coupling caps also got installed and Gee Whiz! The
thing was starting to almost perform with a Stone-Stock
McIntosh MC-60-- which could be greatly improved also, by
applying the same methods.-Dennis-
Edits: 03/21/17 03/21/17 03/21/17
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Follow Ups
- RE: Improved Marantz 9?? - tube wrangler 18:14:38 03/21/17 (102)
- This is a bunch of B.S. nonsense.... - crooner 12:11:07 03/22/17 (6)
- look closer.... - drlowmu 13:04:01 03/22/17 (5)
- RE: look even closer... - Steve O 15:22:09 03/22/17 (4)
- RE: look even closer... - PakProtector 04:02:37 03/23/17 (2)
- Maybe ... - Steve O 05:59:47 03/23/17 (1)
- Thanks Steve for the technical clarification (nt)... - crooner 07:57:36 03/23/17 (0)
- RE: look even closer... - drlowmu 21:47:32 03/22/17 (0)
- What an astonishingly insightful (and iconoclastic) assessment of some formerly revered designs.... - Steve O 18:57:15 03/21/17 (94)
- RE: What an astonishingly insightful (and iconoclastic) assessment of some formerly revered designs.... - tube wrangler 19:25:14 03/21/17 (93)
- RE: What an astonishingly insightful (and iconoclastic) assessment of some formerly revered designs.... - gusser 11:36:28 03/22/17 (0)
- How many folks have even heard an original 9? - rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com 06:43:14 03/22/17 (9)
- I have a pair of 1962 vintage Model 9's - crooner 08:56:41 03/22/17 (8)
- RE: I have a pair of 1962 vintage Model 9's - drlowmu 12:04:37 03/22/17 (7)
- RE: I have a pair of 1962 vintage Model 9's - crooner 12:16:01 03/22/17 (6)
- And I personally owned Marantz 9 with OEM Rack Mount faceplates - drlowmu 16:36:29 03/23/17 (5)
- RE: And I personally owned Marantz 9 with OEM Rack Mount faceplates - crooner 16:48:57 03/23/17 (4)
- RE: And I personally owned Marantz 9's with OEM Rack Mount faceplates - drlowmu 17:39:38 03/23/17 (3)
- Where's the Speedster now? - Lew 08:05:34 03/24/17 (2)
- RE: Where's the Speedster now? - drlowmu 08:16:55 03/24/17 (1)
- My personal favorite 356, the Roadster - Lew 12:00:03 03/24/17 (0)
- RE: What an astonishingly insightful (and iconoclastic) assessment of some formerly revered designs.... - PakProtector 04:23:00 03/22/17 (0)
- I have learned 'a lot' from Nobu Shishido and implemented his ideas into my designs.~nT - Cleantimestream 01:20:08 03/22/17 (1)
- RE: I have learned 'a lot' from Nobu Shishido and implemented his ideas into my designs.~nT - drlowmu 11:24:19 03/23/17 (0)
- RE: What an astonishingly insightful (and iconoclastic) assessment of some formerly revered designs.... - hahax@verizon.net 20:08:15 03/21/17 (78)
- RE: What an astonishingly insightful (and iconoclastic) assessment of some formerly revered designs.... - Tre' 21:05:07 03/21/17 (23)
- RE: What an astonishingly insightful (and iconoclastic) assessment of some formerly revered designs.... - hahax@verizon.net 19:54:53 03/22/17 (21)
- RE: What an astonishingly insightful (and iconoclastic) assessment of some formerly revered designs.... - Tre' 08:14:18 03/23/17 (0)
- RE: What an astonishingly insightful (and iconoclastic) assessment of some formerly revered designs.... - JKT 22:45:22 03/22/17 (19)
- RE: What an astonishingly insightful (and iconoclastic) assessment of some formerly revered designs.... - hahax@verizon.net 06:20:27 03/23/17 (18)
- RE: What an astonishingly insightful (and iconoclastic) assessment of some formerly revered designs.... - JKT 11:28:26 03/23/17 (17)
- RE: What an astonishingly insightful (and iconoclastic) assessment of some formerly revered designs.... - tube wrangler 20:44:32 03/23/17 (11)
- ? - Tre' 21:06:37 03/23/17 (10)
- rolled off at 3800Hz - Tre' 15:28:42 03/24/17 (8)
- RE: rolled off at 3800Hz - PakProtector 04:39:56 03/25/17 (0)
- RE: rolled off at 3800Hz - tube wrangler 20:19:59 03/24/17 (6)
- Really Dennis? - gusser 10:53:28 03/25/17 (1)
- RE: Really Dennis? - tube wrangler 18:25:54 03/25/17 (0)
- RE: rolled off at 3800Hz - Tre' 22:34:19 03/24/17 (3)
- RE: rolled off at 3800Hz - tube wrangler 09:26:31 03/25/17 (2)
- Sorry Dennis... - PakProtector 05:41:06 03/26/17 (0)
- Dennis , I'm saving this. (nt) - Tre' 13:02:29 03/25/17 (0)
- +1 - 91derlust 02:05:02 03/24/17 (0)
- RE: What an astonishingly insightful (and iconoclastic) assessment of some formerly revered designs.... - hahax@verizon.net 13:12:22 03/23/17 (4)
- RE: What an astonishingly insightful (and iconoclastic) assessment of some formerly revered designs.... - JKT 14:10:29 03/26/17 (3)
- RE: What an astonishingly insightful (and iconoclastic) assessment of some formerly revered designs.... - tube wrangler 14:21:36 03/26/17 (2)
- RE: What an astonishingly insightful (and iconoclastic) assessment of some formerly revered designs.... - JKT 14:26:24 03/26/17 (1)
- RE: What an astonishingly insightful (and iconoclastic) assessment of some formerly revered designs.... - tube wrangler 23:41:37 03/26/17 (0)
- another cool DHT - PakProtector 04:17:41 03/22/17 (0)
- RE: What an astonishingly insightful (and iconoclastic) assessment of some formerly revered designs.... - tube wrangler 20:43:58 03/21/17 (53)
- RE: What an astonishingly insightful (and iconoclastic) assessment of some formerly revered designs.... - Tre' 21:17:44 03/21/17 (52)
- RE: What an astonishingly insightful (and iconoclastic) assessment of some formerly revered designs.... - tube wrangler 22:44:30 03/21/17 (51)
- Theory Man? - gusser 10:49:50 03/22/17 (18)
- Funny you should mention Sal Marantz - rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com 14:05:02 03/22/17 (3)
- Saul Bernard - drlowmu 20:50:53 03/23/17 (0)
- Saul not "Sal"... - Steve O 14:49:57 03/22/17 (0)
- And neither was David Sarnoff! - gusser 14:25:46 03/22/17 (0)
- RE: Theory Man? - TomWh 13:02:04 03/22/17 (10)
- plenty of farmers who make way pass your salary. - gusser 13:37:00 03/22/17 (3)
- RE: plenty of farmers who make way pass your salary. - dave slagle 10:41:59 03/23/17 (2)
- RE: plenty of farmers who make way pass your salary. - gusser 14:34:11 03/23/17 (0)
- RE: plenty of farmers who make way pass your salary. - drlowmu 11:32:24 03/23/17 (0)
- Huh? - gusser 13:31:04 03/22/17 (5)
- Of course I have! - Jim Dowdy 14:30:41 03/22/17 (2)
- Absolutly! - gusser 14:40:39 03/22/17 (1)
- RE: Absolutly! - dave slagle 06:26:01 03/23/17 (0)
- RE: Huh? - TomWh 13:56:56 03/22/17 (1)
- Why not? - gusser 14:14:58 03/22/17 (0)
- RE: Theory Man? - PakProtector 11:17:33 03/22/17 (2)
- RE: Theory Man? - Eli Duttman 11:49:11 03/22/17 (0)
- So he says? - gusser 11:22:44 03/22/17 (0)
- RE: What an astonishingly insightful (and iconoclastic) assessment of some formerly revered designs.... - Tre' 08:03:43 03/22/17 (1)
- RE: What an astonishingly insightful (and iconoclastic) assessment of some formerly revered designs.... - tube wrangler 17:36:50 03/22/17 (0)
- RE: What an astonishingly insightful (and iconoclastic) assessment of some formerly revered designs.... - PakProtector 04:13:51 03/22/17 (29)
- RE: What an astonishingly insightful (and iconoclastic) assessment of some formerly revered designs.... - RPMac 05:55:56 03/22/17 (28)
- RE: What an astonishingly insightful (and iconoclastic) assessment of some formerly revered designs.... - gusser 10:07:17 03/22/17 (0)
- RE: What an astonishingly insightful (and iconoclastic) assessment of some formerly revered designs.... - TomWh 08:49:43 03/22/17 (1)
- RE: What an astonishingly insightful (and iconoclastic) assessment of some formerly revered designs.... - RPMac 15:30:39 03/22/17 (0)
- RE: What an astonishingly insightful (and iconoclastic) assessment of some formerly revered designs.... - cpotl 06:47:34 03/22/17 (24)
- RE: What an astonishingly insightful (and iconoclastic) assessment of some formerly revered designs.... - gusser 11:12:02 03/22/17 (23)
- May be true, but for a different reason. - sser2 19:22:17 03/23/17 (0)
- What????????????????????????????????? - TomWh 12:10:57 03/22/17 (20)
- Have you figured out your scope yet? - gusser 12:21:50 03/22/17 (19)
- RE: Have you figured out your scope yet? - TomWh 13:44:06 03/22/17 (17)
- RE: Have you figured out your scope yet? - Tre' 17:50:01 03/22/17 (0)
- RE: Have you figured out your scope yet? - gusser 13:58:27 03/22/17 (15)
- RE: Have you figured out your scope yet? - sideliner 16:02:54 03/22/17 (14)
- It's not a cop out! - gusser 17:01:42 03/22/17 (13)
- RE: It's not a cop out! - TomWh 18:31:51 03/22/17 (8)
- I'm not following you! - gusser 18:51:46 03/22/17 (7)
- RE: I'm not following you! - Tre' 19:47:26 03/22/17 (6)
- RE: I'm not following you! - TomWh 20:59:24 03/22/17 (5)
- Hmm, well Richard C. Heyser's pay grade is far above anyone here and he said... - Cleantimestream 00:56:33 03/25/17 (0)
- RE: I'm not following you! - Tre' 23:07:14 03/24/17 (2)
- RE: I'm not following you! - TomWh 08:23:30 03/25/17 (1)
- RE: I'm not following you! - cpotl 14:58:55 03/25/17 (0)
- Not back peddling at all! - gusser 22:16:02 03/22/17 (0)
- RE: It's not a cop out! - sideliner 18:23:47 03/22/17 (3)
- State of the art is perfect? - gusser 18:37:52 03/22/17 (2)
- RE: State of the art is perfect? - sideliner 21:09:03 03/22/17 (1)
- But consider this? - gusser 22:45:38 03/22/17 (0)
- RE: Have you figured out your scope yet? - Eli Duttman 12:34:27 03/22/17 (0)
- RE: What an astonishingly insightful (and iconoclastic) assessment of some formerly revered designs.... - Eli Duttman 12:03:37 03/22/17 (0)