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RE: OK

Posted by op48no1 on May 2, 2012 at 19:54:50

In Reply to: OK posted by unclestu on May 2, 2012 at 18:09:24:

I have absolutely no idea how or why Dale Technology power cords are built the way they are. I have to assume because this makes them safer and more reliable. If you're interested, why don't you write to them and ask, then post the answer?

I don't see how this is relevant to your feelings about the sound properties of black-insulated wire.

You seem terribly affronted, but you have to understand I'm really quite dispassionate about this. Black insulated wire may sound worse than white insulated wire. If so, that's interesting. Black insulated wire may sound the same as white insulated wire. That's fine, too. If the former case, I suppose I'd be curious to know the reason why. There has to be a reason, you know.

If I can try to summarize, you have postulated that the signal traveling through the black-insulated wire enters and exits the insulation layer at many random points along the length of the wire. The signal traveling through the resistive insulation material is delayed relative to the signal in the conductor, and this results in a "smearing" of the signal across the audible frequency band. The smearing effect is barely detectable except with the most exotic equipment, but is readily apparent to the human ear. You have discounted the possibility that expectation has colored perception.

I have here pieces of white and black teflon insulated wire. I also have a Fluke 187 digital multimeter which has a conductance scale with a resolution of 0.01nS. That's one divided by 100,000,000,000 Ohms. I am pressing the probes down hard on the insulation about 1/16" of an inch apart. I see no change in the reading for either color wire, beyond the random fluctuation due to noise in the instrument.

Can you quantify for me how much conductance are you talking about here in properly manufactured black wire?

I am trying to understand what potential differences along the length of the wire would cause electrons to flow into this super low-conductance insulation layer in preference to moving through the copper conductor.

I am trying to understand how this postulated flow of electrons into the insulation layer would influence the electromagnetic field around the wire, which is where the information actually propagates. (The electrons themselves only move at a speed of a fraction of a millimeter per second -- did you know that?)

I am trying to understand how this tiny amount of incidental current hypothesized to be flowing in the insulation could cause a random variation in the propagation delay of the signal through the wire that would be audible in any normal hi-fi application.

I'm trying to understand how you can be immune to subjective bias.

I studied electrical engineering. You (and a few others) seem to think that's a crime. Go figure. I studied Maxwell's equations, electromagnetics, and semiconductor physics. But the bulk of my training was in the realm of circuit analysis. Circuit analysis imposes simplifying constraints to make problems tractable. You can't readily analyze a schematic if you have to solve everything in terms of field behavior. Have you got a lumped circuit model for this effect you propose, or does it require that we go all the way back to the field equations to get a solution?

Do you actually, really know what group delay is? Even after reading my earlier explanation?

Show me your model and crank some numbers through it so I can get a sense of the magnitude of the effect. Give me some equations I can puzzle over so I can figure out what you're really talking about.

OK, now this is the part where you tell me again that you trust your ears and you don't have to prove anything to me because the evidence speaks for itself. Right. Got it.

So you were the one who came out with this engineering explanation, and I took you seriously enough to take time out of my day to think about it. And now, you're angry at me because I have pointed out some flaws and omissions in your analysis. Is it because you wanted to appear smart to people, and I came along and rained on the parade?

Remember, I never said you didn't hear the difference. I didn't even claim the difference was impossible. That's YOUR word. All I said was your explanation made no sense.

Stop being indignant and reading things into my words that I didn't say. You want to be taken seriously or not? Yes? You have been taken seriously.

Deal with it.

-Henry

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