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The BIGGEST Lies Objectivists Tell About Subjectivists (Part 1)

Posted by thetubeguy1954 (A) on March 9, 2007 at 07:57:46

I have been thinking about Peter Aczel's attack on subjectivists & subjective listening with his article, THE 10 BIGGEST LIES IN AUDIO. I've decided to do the same thing from the subjectivists POV. My series of posts hopefully won't be in 10 parts but I'm going to bring to light some of the BIGGEST LIES objectivists say about subjectivists.

I have to admit I’m really at a loss with the objectivist's reasoning behind these lies. After all it's these same objectivists who claim to have scientific proof that their POV is the correct one. Thus try as I may I cannot understand why these same objectivists are so insecure in their POV that they are constantly lying by attributing traits to subjectivists that they know are just plain untrue. So with that opening statement let's begin with objectivist's lie #1

SUBJECTIVISTS THINK ALL MEASUREMENTS ARE USELESS

At first glance this would appear to be such a ludicrous statement by one of the lunatic-fringe objectivists, that one would expect the other more rational objectivists to speak up and declare they know this couldn't be & isn't possibly a true representation of what subjectivists believe. Unfortunately that hasn't happened. Instead we have a few of the very vocal amongst the lunatic-fringe objectivists pronounce that this is the belief of the typical subjectivist! Even when those who make this claim are asked to show where a subjectivist has said ALL measurements are useless, they just ignore that request and continue on professing this deliberate falsehood as if it were the truth!

For an example that confirms this belief by objectivists we have POLLYinFLA commenting the subjectivist position on measurements is “…you (TG1954)consider them (measurements) useless and meaningless, because we really can't measure everything, so we might as well measure nothing and just listen with the trusty ol' ghost hearing measurement devices only, the ears.”
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/prophead/messages/29643.html

Now everyone here knows POLLYinFLA doesn't usually post intelligent, rational posts, but rather prefers to create posts that ridicule or provoke those who disagree with is audio POV. So to further prove this is not an isolated opinion by a sole lunatic-fringe objectivist. I took this response from the Audiohobby. I admit Hobby & I seldom agree, but his posts are rational & intelligent most of the time. Audiohobby responded to this post by POLLYinFLA with this comment “Yep, you captured the foolishness that pervades thinking of many on this board.” http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/prophead/messages/29649.html

IMHO the only "foolishness" I see is these two objectivists supporting one anothers deliberate spreading of a known falsehood. It appears that when a subjectivist uses their ears as the final aribitrator, the objectivists twist that practice into meaning all or most subjectivists believe all measurements are useless. That is a bold face lie. Every subjectivist knows that some measurements are useful. An SPL meter for example can be quite useful in determining "sound" levels. In fact I know more than one DIY subjectivists that owns a $50 Rat Shack version as seen here:
http://www.radioshack.com/sm-digital-display-sound-level-meter--pi-2103667.html
So I'm sorry but any objectivist who espouses the lie that all subjectivists believe all measurements are useless, either doesn't know what subjectivists truly believe or you do know and just lie to discredit subjectivists by any means you can.

For those objectivists who really want to know the truth about what most subjectivists believe about measurements, it's simply this. There are measurements that correlate to everything we hear in audio components be it amps, wires, etc. However the typical measurements used today in audio don’t correlate with what we hear. Subjectivists realize just as any "serious" music lover/audiophile should, the human ear/brain combo is extremely adept at recognizing the traits that makes live music, live music! They also know the human ear/brain combo is equally adept at recognizing recorded because the traits that makes live music, live music are missing in the recording. This ability for the human ear/brain combo to instantly recognize the traits of live music is the reason why "serious" music lovers/audiophiles never mistake live music for recorded music or recorded music for live music.

Apparently at this present time scientists & audio manufacturers either don't know what to measure or they don't know how to measure for these traits in live music. If they did they'd only need to measure for which of those traits are missing in recorded music & replace or replicate them as required. Personally I agree with something Tom Danley told me previously which I'm now paraphrasing:
It's just not cost effective to do the research required to discover how & why the human ear/brain combo instantly recognizes live unamplified music as such. (Tom please correct any errors I made in what you said.) Once science & audio manufacturers finally do that research & discover how & what to measure concerning how & why the human ear/brain combo instantly recognizes live unamplified music as such. These will be the measurements that correlate to what we hear in amps, cables, etc and subjectivists and hopefully objectivists will embrace them.

In the meantime here's the specs of a solidstate amp:

Frequency Response: at 1 watt, 20Hz - 20 kHz ± 0.1 dB
Phase Response: at 1 watt, 10Hz - 20 kHz ±10°
Signal to Noise Ratio below full bandwidth power
20 Hz to 20 kHz
A-weighted
> 100 dB
> 105 dB
Total Harmonic Distortion: (THD) at rated power, true THD < 0.05%
Intermodulation Distortion: (IMD)60 Hz and 7 kHz at 4:1,from rated power to 35 dB below rated power at 8 ohms < 0.05%
Damping Factor: 10 Hz to 400 Hz > 1000
Controlled Slew Rate: > 30 volts/μs
Input Impedance:
nominally balanced 10k ohms
nominally unbalanced 20 k ohms
Output Impedance: 6 milli ohms @ 20Hz rising to 130 milli ohms @ 20Khz
Load Impedance: (Note: Safe with all types of loads)
Stereo 2-8 ohms
Bridge Mono 4-16 ohms
Parallel Mono 1-4 ohms
Voltage Gain: (8-ohm load rated output at 1 kHz, maximum level setting)
0.775V sensitivity
1.4V sensitivity
26 dB sensitivity
132:1 ±6% or 42 dB ±0.5 dB
71:1 ±6% or 37 dB ±0.5 dB
20:1 ±6% or 26 dB ±0.5 dB

Will one of the objectivists tell me:

a) Which of those measurements defines how high a soundstage will be?
b) Which of those measurements defines how wide a soundstage will be?
c) Which of those measurements defines how deep a soundstage will be?
d) Which of those measurements defines how much "air" will be heard around the performers & instruments?
e) Which of those measurements defines what this component's resolution capabilities are?
f) What of those measurements defines this component's imaging capabilities?
g) What of those measurements defines how well this component replicates live unamplified music?

These and other traits are important to me as well as other audiophiles/music lovers. So if you honestly believe that these measurements are of use in determining how well this amp replicates music. Please tell us which measurements correlate to the questions I've asked? Also how are they interpreted for these specific questions listed above? For example of what I mean by interpreting the measurements if you were to say resolution capability is correlated to Slew Rate. Would it get greater as the volts/μs increased or decreased?

Thetubeguy1954

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