Subject: Re[2]: cables
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 17:13:02 -0700
From: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
Organization: SMTEK
To: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
On 1998/06/15 at 17:13:01, KMERSERE@SMTP {kmersereau@baughpdx.com} wrote:
Hi Ralph,
Could you expand upon evaluating the correct characteristics, et al
etc. to yield max. benefits.?
Are you refering to specific calc's based upon the actual
preamp/amp/speakers measurements?
Do you recommend any specfic cable manufacturers or lines? Type of
conductors(i.e. solid, strand, foil..) Any particular ones to avoid?
THanks
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: cables
Author: at SMTP_Gateway
Date: 6/15/98 3:40 PM
The cables of th ecorrect characteristic impedance, terminated by a speaker
of the target impedance, will yeild the maximum benifit, all other things
being equal. Thus the most expensive cable is not always the best, physics
does play a big role and short lenghts are better if the match in not acheived.
-Ralph
Subject: Soundstage Feedback
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:55:29 -0700
From: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
Organization: SMTEK
To: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
On 1998/06/22 at 20:55:28, KMERSERE@SMTP {kmersereau@baughpdx.com} wrote:
Dear ASOG Members,
Please visit Soundstage's website, talk online, Audio (Tubes) board.
There is a gentleman soliciting input/opinions on purchasing an
AtmaSphere M60 mkII kit. I gave him my 2 cents worth.
If you like your kit, please encourage him and help spread the word.
Thanks,
Ken Mersereau.
Subject: Re: Soundstage Feedback
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 9:38:09 -0700
From: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
Organization: SMTEK
To: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
On 1998/06/23 at 09:38:08, RALPH@SMTP {ralph@atma-sphere.com} wrote:
>On 1998/06/22 at 20:55:28, KMERSERE@SMTP {kmersereau@baughpdx.com} wrote:
>
>Dear ASOG Members,
>
> Please visit Soundstage's website, talk online, Audio (Tubes) board.
> There is a gentleman soliciting input/opinions on purchasing an
> AtmaSphere M60 mkII kit. I gave him my 2 cents worth.
>
> If you like your kit, please encourage him and help spread the word.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ken Mersereau.
>
>
>
>
>
Thanks Ken! -Ralph
Subject: Re: New ASOG Listserver Member
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 9:35:27 -0700
From: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
Organization: SMTEK
To: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
On 1998/08/04 at 09:35:27, B.LAYER@SMTP {b.layer@vikingelectronics.com} wrote:
Hi Travis,
Here's the tricky part, power amps now have a 240V
>circuit, so there's more re-wiring to be done. Should be interesting to
>hear
>the change in line voltage, house now has a whole-house surge protector on
>it.
> Guess I'll ask Ralph Karsten about changing the amps to 240V operation.
>That's all, see ya'.
If your MA-1 is of middle age, it should be no trouble to conver it to 235
V. All of the stock ASMS xfmrs have dual primaries, which are currently in
parallel for 120V operation.
Your unit probably has either 2 or 3 seperate xfmrs.
Switch each primary to series connection and the job is done. You'll also
need to add some extra Zeners to the LED board common return to prevent
those guys from burning up along with their 10K resistors...
Good choice updating those MA-1s!
Bill Layer
Sales Technician
----------------------------------
Viking Electronics, Inc.
Hudson, WI. U.S.A
715.386.8861 (ext. 210)
----------------------------------
"Telecommunications Solutions for the 21st Century"
Subject: New Listserver Member
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:00:24 -0700
From: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
Organization: SMTEK
To: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
On 1998/08/05 at 11:00:22, MARK.GIL@SMTP {mark.gilmore@smtek.com} wrote:
Dear ASOG Listserver Members,
Please join me in welcoming Victor Michelson to our group.
Best regards,
mark gilmore
**********************************************************************
I'm the proud owner of a pair of M-50`s.
I`m working with ARC SP9MKII, ARC DAC1-20, WADIA WT2000
transport, MARANTZ 10B(tube tuner), old stuf from J.B.LANSING
and an old SANSUI turntable with ORTOFON cartridge.
I want to be a member ofyour A.S.O.G.
I want if it's possible to have some reviews of the M-50`s,
and better information of its upgrade.
Victor Michelson michelson82@hotmail.com
Subject: Latesr ASOG Listserver Membership
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:06:34 -0700
From: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
Organization: SMTEK
To: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
On 1998/08/05 at 11:06:33, MARK.GIL@SMTP {mark.gilmore@smtek.com} wrote:
Dear ASOG Listserver members,
Here's the latest Listserver membership. Please help me keep the listing up
to date. If you do not have a city listed after your email address and
name, please send me email so I can update the list. If you are aware of
any errors in the listing, I'd be most appreciative if you have any
corrections.
Best regards,
mark gilmore
nelson@mnl.sequel.net Nelson Chan
jerry_seigel@jdedwards.com Jerry Seigel
Denver, CO
spellman@swaps.ml.com John Spellman
francisco@filip3.fis.uc.pt Francisco ?
Manilla, Phillipines
svetengr@earthlink.net Eric Barbour
Portola Valley, CA
IRRIG8R@classic.msn.com Michael Haener
ecdcyc@ccunix.ccu.edu.tw Chih-Yi Chi
chamade@wco.com John Nunes
Rebank@aol.com Ed Bank
asek@uswest.net Al Sekela
Phoenix, AZ
wb6rhq@loop.com Mark Gilmore
Moorpark, CA
jharper@dialup.francenet.fr John Harper
Valbonne, France
tre@ncplus.com Tre' Perry
Ojai, CA
john_spellman@ml.com John Spellman
nalevy@earthlink.net Neil Levy
ralph@atma-sphere.com Ralph Karsten St.
Paul, MN
blayer@uswest.net Bill Layer St.
Paul, MN
MHR@aol.com Mark ?
Ray.Shepherd@transquest.com Ray Shepherd
Atlanta, GA
coleperf@visuallink.com Steven Cole
kmersereau@baughpdx.com Ken Mersereau
Portland, OR
f.donkerduyvis@lr.tudelft.nl Frits Donker Duyvis
kcovi@ibm.net Kevin Covi
Aria3@aol.com Ray Ridley
kevin@upscaleaudio.com Kevin Deal
Upland, CA
azivin@umich.edu Adam Zivin Ann
Arbor, MI
george@smarts.com George Hoenninger
Carmel, NY
olmeda@worldonline.nl Piero Olmeda
Alkmaar, Holland
hitsbbop@flash.net Travis & Carolyn Franklin
Houston, TX
pi_tube@hotmail.com Marcial Bacani
Houston, TX
michelson82@hotmail.com Victor Michelson
Subject: Re: Latesr ASOG Listserver Membership
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:36:41 -0700
From: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
Organization: SMTEK
To: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
On 1998/08/05 at 11:36:39, MICHELSO@SMTP {michelson82@hotmail.com} wrote:
>From atma-sphere@manicreader.com Wed Aug 5 11:14:39 1998
>Received: from Connect2 Message Router by smtp.smtek.com
> via Connect2-SMTP 4.33; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:06:41 -0700
>Message-ID: <8A11073001C41800@smtp.smtek.com>
>Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:06:34 -0700
>From: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
>Sender: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
>Organization: SMTEK
>To: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
>Subject: Latesr ASOG Listserver Membership
>X-SMF-Hop-Count: 1
>X-Mailer: Connect2-SMTP 4.33 MHS/SMF to SMTP Gateway
>
>On 1998/08/05 at 11:06:33, MARK.GIL@SMTP {mark.gilmore@smtek.com}
wrote:
>
>Dear ASOG Listserver members,
>
>Here's the latest Listserver membership. Please help me keep the
listing up
>to date. If you do not have a city listed after your email address and
>name, please send me email so I can update the list. If you are aware
of
>any errors in the listing, I'd be most appreciative if you have any
>corrections.
>
>Best regards,
>
> mark gilmore
>
>
>nelson@mnl.sequel.net Nelson Chan
>jerry_seigel@jdedwards.com Jerry Seigel
> Denver, CO
>spellman@swaps.ml.com John Spellman
>francisco@filip3.fis.uc.pt Francisco ?
> Manilla, Phillipines
>svetengr@earthlink.net Eric Barbour
> Portola Valley, CA
>IRRIG8R@classic.msn.com Michael Haener
>ecdcyc@ccunix.ccu.edu.tw Chih-Yi Chi
>chamade@wco.com John Nunes
>Rebank@aol.com Ed Bank
>asek@uswest.net Al Sekela
> Phoenix, AZ
>wb6rhq@loop.com Mark Gilmore
> Moorpark, CA
>jharper@dialup.francenet.fr John Harper
> Valbonne, France
>tre@ncplus.com Tre' Perry
> Ojai, CA
>john_spellman@ml.com John Spellman
>nalevy@earthlink.net Neil Levy
>ralph@atma-sphere.com Ralph Karsten
St.
>Paul, MN
>blayer@uswest.net Bill Layer
St.
>Paul, MN
>MHR@aol.com Mark ?
>Ray.Shepherd@transquest.com Ray Shepherd
> Atlanta, GA
>coleperf@visuallink.com Steven Cole
>kmersereau@baughpdx.com Ken Mersereau
> Portland, OR
>f.donkerduyvis@lr.tudelft.nl Frits Donker Duyvis
>kcovi@ibm.net Kevin Covi
>Aria3@aol.com Ray Ridley
>kevin@upscaleaudio.com Kevin Deal
> Upland, CA
>azivin@umich.edu Adam Zivin
Ann
>Arbor, MI
>george@smarts.com George Hoenninger
> Carmel, NY
>olmeda@worldonline.nl Piero Olmeda
> Alkmaar, Holland
>hitsbbop@flash.net Travis & Carolyn Franklin
> Houston, TX
>pi_tube@hotmail.com Marcial Bacani
> Houston, TX
>michelson82@hotmail.com Victor Michelson
> Santiago . Chile .
>
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Subject: Re: New Listserver Member
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 12:53:46 -0700
From: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
Organization: SMTEK
To: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
On 1998/08/05 at 12:53:43, B.LAYER@SMTP {b.layer@vikingelectronics.com} wrote:
Hello Victor,
>I want if it's possible to have some reviews of the M-50`s,
>and better information of its upgrade.
Please describe your M-50's several different types hav been made, and sold
over the years. Can you tell us:
1) Is the unit handwired or circuit board based? Handwired versions have 2
#4-40 screws mounting each tube socket; CB versions have the sockets
soldered to a board, which projects them through the chassis deck
2) What is the DRIVER tube compliment (typical is 12AT7 x 2, 12AU7 x 1)
3) What is the transformer compliment? Any torroids, or are they all E-I
core or 'space-saver' style? YOu may have to pull the PS cover for this; 8x
#4-40 screws.
4) What type of rectifiers are in use in the driver power supply (advanced
topic). Standard 1N4007 or HexFreds ?
If you can provide all or some of this, I can describe the full upgrade
path for you. Many, many upgrades have evolved since the early M-50s were
built. The first change I would make, is to get your BIAS/DC offset switch
(front panel) out of the @$#*!$!& signal path. BIG IMPROVEMENT...
Got a soldering iron handy, Victor?
Bill Layer
Sales Technician
----------------------------------
Viking Electronics, Inc.
Hudson, WI. U.S.A
715.386.8861 (ext. 210)
----------------------------------
"Telecommunications Solutions for the 21st Century"
Subject: M60 latest mods
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 7:59:49 -0700
From: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
Organization: SMTEK
To: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
On 1998/08/08 at 07:59:45, HARPER@SMTP {harper@q3-consulting.com} wrote:
I have just finished installing the 1-ohm plate resistor mods to
my M60s (i.e. each plate has its own 1 ohm resistor).
My impression is that this has indeed somewhat improved the
feeling of the bass, as promised, and also slightly the imaging.
However the reason may be something unexpected that showed up while
I made the mod: of the 16 triodes in one chassis, two were non-
functional. This was impossible to detect before, but now it is
easy. Visual inspection showed that in each case the internal
connection from the lead wire to one of the cathodes was
detached. I have replaced them with the last of the spares
in the kit. I was also surprised (now that I can measure it)
by the discrepancy in the current pulled by each tube, from
as low as 68mA to as high as 140mA.
At the same time I installed the 3 kohm plate resistor on the
driver of chassis #1 (I did chassis #2 a while ago).
I also changed the output stage toroid, since I had buzz problems
with the old one. The new one is better but still far from silent,
and I still cannot run both chassis from the same power outlet
without totally unacceptable buzz.
John
======================================================================
John Harper Specialising in the application of
Q3 Consulting Information Technology to
BP32, 06560 VALBONNE, France Telecommunications
phone: (+33) 493 12 24 70
fax: (+33) 493 12 09 89 E-mail: harper@q3-consulting.com
Subject: Re: M60 latest mods
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 10:40:05 -0700
From: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
Organization: SMTEK
To: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
On 1998/08/10 at 10:39:53, B.LAYER@SMTP {b.layer@vikingelectronics.com} wrote:
Hi John,
>I also changed the output stage toroid, since I had buzz problems
>with the old one. The new one is better but still far from silent,
>and I still cannot run both chassis from the same power outlet
>without totally unacceptable buzz.
What is the factory saying about the buzz problem? In my experience, one
issue that never really came up was buzz from the Talema xfmrs. Since you
had 2 noisy units in a row, the chances of this being a problem with the
xfmr is pretty low.
What is the status of your power line conditioning? Have you considered
that the noise could be the result of distortion on the AC line? This makes
very good sense, as the problem seems to multiply when two units are run
from one circuit. (re-radiation of impressed noise, with additional
distortion)
Did you try connecting a HV oil cap (3-10uF) in parallel with the AC input
to the power amp? Any improvements from this would almost certainly point
to a power factor problem.
Hope this helps.
>
> John
>======================================================================
> John Harper Specialising in the application of
> Q3 Consulting Information Technology to
> BP32, 06560 VALBONNE, France Telecommunications
> phone: (+33) 493 12 24 70
> fax: (+33) 493 12 09 89 E-mail: harper@q3-consulting.com
>
Bill Layer
Sales Technician
----------------------------------
Viking Electronics, Inc.
Hudson, WI. U.S.A
715.386.8861 (ext. 210)
----------------------------------
"Telecommunications Solutions for the 21st Century"
Subject: Re: M60 latest mods
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 10:40:10 -0700
From: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
Organization: SMTEK
To: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
On 1998/08/10 at 10:39:53, RALPH@SMTP {ralph@atma-sphere.com} wrote:
>On 1998/08/09 at 13:01:25, WB6RHQ@SMTP {wb6rhq@loop.com} wrote:
>
>Dear John,
>
>> I have just finished installing the 1-ohm plate resistor mods to
>> my M60s (i.e. each plate has its own 1 ohm resistor).
>>
>> My impression is that this has indeed somewhat improved the
>> feeling of the bass, as promised, and also slightly the imaging.
>> However the reason may be something unexpected that showed up while
>> I made the mod: of the 16 triodes in one chassis, two were non-
>> functional. This was impossible to detect before, but now it is
>> easy. Visual inspection showed that in each case the internal
>> connection from the lead wire to one of the cathodes was
>> detached. I have replaced them with the last of the spares
>> in the kit. I was also surprised (now that I can measure it)
>> by the discrepancy in the current pulled by each tube, from
>> as low as 68mA to as high as 140mA.
>
>I've experienced the same things. Congratulations on your upgrades. Its
>good to know all the individual triodes are contributing something to the
>output power! The detached wire you found, with visual inspection, is
>actually a fuse of sorts. Even without the various advantages of the plate
>resistor upgrades, I think I'd do the mod just to be able to monitor the
>individual triode plate current.
>
>You might consider another related modification. I have installed a pair of
>tip jacks next to each output tube. Each tip jack is connected to an output
>tube plate (I used red jacks). I also installed two more tip jacks (I used
>black), each connected to their respective sides of the two bipolar output
>supplies. Now I can meter plate current, on all the output triodes, without
>the need to tip the amplifier up on its side.
>
>> At the same time I installed the 3 kohm plate resistor on the
>> driver of chassis #1 (I did chassis #2 a while ago).
>>
>> I also changed the output stage toroid, since I had buzz problems
>> with the old one. The new one is better but still far from silent,
>> and I still cannot run both chassis from the same power outlet
>> without totally unacceptable buzz.
>
>I must be very lucky. I have yet to hear any buzz whatsoever.
>
>There is one more similar modification I have not yet added to the ASOG web
>page that is now being added to the production version of our amplifiers.
>150 Ohm grid stop resistors are being installed on every grid. Now that
>you're tired of after adding 32 resistors, I had to go and tell you about
>adding 32 more resistors. I don't mean to be cruel. 1/4 watt is fine. Of
>course, if you're like me, you might want to add even more tip jacks to
>monitor grid current on each output triode.
>
NOTE FROM ATMA-SPHERE: the minimum wattage should be 1/2 Watt.
>The advantages of these grid stop resistors is much like those attained with
>plate resistors. Reliability is the key issue here. I know that there's
>not much limiting provided, but its enough to help the output tubes from
>demanding excessive grid current and hastening the "thermal runaway" common
>in a tube not recommended for fixed bias service. This is how you end up
>with the open cathodes you've already seen. You'll be amazed how much grid
>current flows when you push your output stage. You'll also be able to
>choose the strongest output tubes when you can easily monitor grid current.
>With the plate and grid stop resistors in place, a good meter and the right
>input signal, you've got a fine tube tester.
>
>With all these resistors in place, I've found that the plentiful and
>inexpensive, American 6AS7Gs and 6080s do not arc over very often. The
>American tubes also yield as much as 20% more output power.
>
>Best regards,
>
> mark gilmore
>
>
Subject: Re: M60 latest mods
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 10:56:18 -0700
From: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
Organization: SMTEK
To: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
On 1998/08/10 at 10:56:17, HARPER@SMTP {harper@q3-consulting.com} wrote:
At 13:01 09-08-98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>I've experienced the same things. Congratulations on your upgrades. Its
>good to know all the individual triodes are contributing something to the
>output power! The detached wire you found, with visual inspection, is
>actually a fuse of sorts.
Maybe, but I don't think it had fused through over-current. It looked
as though the weld to the base of the cathode had failed. One of
the tubes subsequently got broken while it was on the bench (something
fell on it - glad it wasn't one of my VV30Bs!) so I will take it apart
and have a closer look.
These tubes can handle plenty of current! After I did the mod to the
first chassis, I noticed one plate glowing red. I measured 750mA!
Then I discovered that the cathode connection had never been soldered.
The problem went away when I soldered the wire (it must have been
touching all that time) -- don't ask me how a tube with an o/c cathode
can pull 750mA! However the point is that the tube was fine
aftewards -- I took it out but was forced to use it again when
I found the two faulty tubes.
>You might consider another related modification. I have installed a pair of
>tip jacks next to each output tube. Each tip jack is connected to an output
>tube plate (I used red jacks). I also installed two more tip jacks (I used
>black), each connected to their respective sides of the two bipolar output
>supplies. Now I can meter plate current, on all the output triodes, without
>the need to tip the amplifier up on its side.
Interesting idea but I couldn't face doing the metalwork!
>
>There is one more similar modification I have not yet added to the ASOG web
>page that is now being added to the production version of our amplifiers.
>150 Ohm grid stop resistors are being installed on every grid. Now that
>you're tired of after adding 32 resistors, I had to go and tell you about
>adding 32 more resistors. I don't mean to be cruel. 1/4 watt is fine. Of
>course, if you're like me, you might want to add even more tip jacks to
>monitor grid current on each output triode.
I knew about this one but haven't done it. I don't think I would now,
as I can't see how it could be fitted in with the plate resistors
in place.
John
======================================================================
John Harper Specialising in the application of
Q3 Consulting Information Technology to
BP32, 06560 VALBONNE, France Telecommunications
phone: (+33) 493 12 24 70
fax: (+33) 493 12 09 89 E-mail: harper@q3-consulting.com
Subject: Re: M60 latest mods
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:56:18 -0700
From: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
Organization: SMTEK
To: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
On 1998/08/10 at 13:56:16, HARPER@SMTP {harper@q3-consulting.com} wrote:
At 10:40 10-08-98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Did you try connecting a HV oil cap (3-10uF) in parallel with the AC input
>to the power amp? Any improvements from this would almost certainly point
>to a power factor problem.
>
>Hope this helps.
Thanks for the tip. I will try it.
John
======================================================================
John Harper Specialising in the application of
Q3 Consulting Information Technology to
BP32, 06560 VALBONNE, France Telecommunications
phone: (+33) 493 12 24 70
fax: (+33) 493 12 09 89 E-mail: harper@q3-consulting.com
Subject: Re: M60 latest mods
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:38:20 -0700
From: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
Organization: SMTEK
To: Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com
On 1998/08/10 at 17:38:19, BBB@SMTP {bbb@castle.net} wrote:
Well, I doubt the value (3-10uF) for the snub caps. I remember it shoud be in
the range of 0.001 to 0.22 range. If a serial resistor (from 15-300Ohm) is
used, the value should be even smaller.
ben
Atma-Sphere@ManicReader.com wrote:
> On 1998/08/10 at 13:56:16, HARPER@SMTP {harper@q3-consulting.com} wrote:
>
> At 10:40 10-08-98 -0700, you wrote:
> >
> >Did you try connecting a HV oil cap (3-10uF) in parallel with the AC input
> >to the power amp? Any improvements from this would almost certainly point
> >to a power factor problem.
> >
> >Hope this helps.
>
> Thanks for the tip. I will try it.
>
> John
>
> ======================================================================
> John Harper Specialising in the application of
> Q3 Consulting Information Technology to
> BP32, 06560 VALBONNE, France Telecommunications
> phone: (+33) 493 12 24 70
> fax: (+33) 493 12 09 89 E-mail: harper@q3-consulting.com