Isolation Ward From ebony pucks to magic foil, mystical and controversial tweaks.

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RE: My point exactly

Posted by May Belt (M) on July 28, 2010 at 10:46:05

In Reply to: My point exactly posted by unclestu on July 26, 2010 at 18:37:27:

[quote] "But please explain to Geoff that treatments are made by mortals and can be replicated by other mortals. Geoff's failure merely applies to himself. " [/quote]

I repeat again, unclestu, "WHAT process which we carry out on our devices would someone want to replicate and for what purpose would they want to replicate it to do ?"

I know that Geoff can replicate SOME of our treatments because we have told him some of the techniques. But, unclestu, the important thing is that he knows WHY he wants to do such.

Unless you know WHAT our treatments want to achieve, then how could anyone know what treatments to carry out on the basic materials which are generally available ?.

Take one of your latest comments.
You described one of your investigations on another 'thread' (Tweaks section).

[quote] "Cut apart a Shun Mook disc and you will find a small faceted crystal. I had the disc X rayed prior to cutting apart in order to determine that there was something within the disc. You can purchase m'pingo wood from Gilmor Woods up in Portland, IIRC. That way, you can investigate the role of the wood itself." [/quote]

And Alan Kafton asked you ""Was that "within" the directional portion of the disk? I seem to remember a small "dot" of wood at the surface that indicated such direction."

I would ask YOU "Is taking something like the Shun Mook disc apart to see what it is made of what you regard as 'investigating how something works in order to replicate it' ???

If YOU wanted to then replicate the Shun Mook device, for WHAT purpose would you want to replicate it ? WHAT would you want it to do, HOW would YOU apply such as the directionality and WHY would you want to apply directionality in the first place ?

And, if YOU have investigated the m'pingo wood itself, what conclusion did you come to as to why it might be effective ? And, even more interesting, did you find out if there might be something even MORE effective than m'pingo wood !!!!!!!!!!!!

ANYONE can try to replicate what our devices LOOK like - that is not the point. For example. You can try to replicate what our Red 'x' Pen looks like - especially when you can actually buy the same Staedtler Pen from a stationers, but if you don't know WHAT you would want the Red Pen to do and WHY you would want it to do something is the crucial point !!

I am in no doubt that you, unclestu, have done numerous investigations but, if at the end of all the investigations you have done, you can still fit all the results you have obtained within the conventional 'something having an effect on the signal' or 'something affecting the acoustic air pressure waves and vibrations in the room' explanations then, in my opinion, your investigations have not yet been thorough enough. !! HOWEVER many you might have carried out !! Our investigations have shown that quite a lot of what people are experiencing regarding sound and changes in the sound cannot be fitted into conventional electronic or acoustic theories

[quote] "Bearing in mind that failures are also part and parcel of the "scientific" method, failures are just as important as successes." [/quote]

Couldn't be more true !!! Sometimes the Failures are what give scientists important clues !!

However, unclestu,
(1) things you tried and expected would improve the sound but, instead, got worse.
(2) things you tried and did not expect any changes to occur but either got improvements in the sound or the sound got worse
(3) things you tried and expected the sound to be worse but, instead, the sound was better.

SHOULD have given you enough clues that ALL changes in the sound cannot fit neatly into the conventional 'something having an effect on the signal' or 'something affecting the acoustic air pressure waves and vibrations in the room' !!!!

Your [quote] "In examining the insides of most audio components, there is very little that is truly custom made. Most components use off the shelf components that can be relatively easily replicated. I find it more interesting to find out why certain components make the kind of difference that is attributed to them ( caps, resisters, wires, etc). - [/quote]

So, unclestu, WHY do some caps, resistors, wires etc make the kind of differences attributed to them ? You KNOW why (such as) different capacitors made from different materials (tantalum beads., polystyrene, mylar film, polypropolene, metal film, ceramic, polyester film,) all sound different, do you ?? You KNOW why different wires sound different, do you ?? And, does EVERY experience of yours fit neatly into the conventional 'something having an effect on the signal' or 'something affecting the acoustic air pressure waves and vibrations in the room' ??

You know what to do when such as a capacitor which has the best specification and the best measurements but sounds the worst, do you ? You KNOW how to 'treat' it so that it WILL eventually sound the best, do you ? You KNOW how to 'treat' a lesser sounding component so that it sounds better than an 'untreated' but better specification component, do you ? And, I am even talking here about components which might NOT be in the signal line !!!!

[quote] "Unless May and Peter are proved to have superhuman or super natural powers, I would simply conclude that their process can be replicated by another human. But then, perhaps, you are saying that they are not human." [/quote]

By that quote, unclestu, you are obviously trying to imply that YOU (or anyone else) can replicate the processes Peter and I use. We ARE human, obviously, and nothing we do is supernatural - only UNUSUAL - as procedures when viewed in relation to conventional audio and sound - but unless YOU (or anyone else) knows and understands WHAT process to use and for WHAT purpose one would want to use it, then I don't believe that you are, or can, replicate our processes !!! Our 'treatments' have been developed by us, are unique to us and are secret and are so unusual that I doubt that anyone can replicate them ALL !! Bearing in mind our more expensive Foils can have 100 different 'treatments' !! You still claim YOU can replicate all those, do you ?

I would not be at all surprised that you could have heard an 'effect' by using the standard prismatic foil. The colours of the material alone would have given you an 'effect'. It is knowing how to 'treat' it further and for what purpose and for what effect you want to 'treat' it to have which is the important thing !! Nor would I be surprised if you had discovered a technique of your own which might give you results similar to results obtained from our devices - as the saying goes "There are many ways to skin a cat" but to claim that you can REPLICATE the 'treatments' we ourselves apply, without us telling you how, NO way unclestu !!

So, in answer to your request "But please explain to Geoff that treatments are made by mortals and can be replicated by other mortals."

Geoff understands WHY certain specific 'treatments' are required !!! Do you ???????????

And Geoff knows how to carry out some of our 'treatments' but I certainly have not told you, and neither has Peter. Other mortals could carry out our 'treatments' (as you put it) but only if Peter and I tell them HOW to first - and we certainly have not told YOU how to.
So, unclestu, WE are the only people who KNOW what 'treatments' we apply to our devices so, implying that you know WHAT treatments we do, cannot be correct !!!!!!!!!!

To illustrate how ludicrous is the argument you are having with Geoff.
You seem to be claiming (and claiming regularly) that because you can buy the basic prismatic Foil and because you are mortal and a human being, that you can guess/work out what treatments to apply to the basic Foil material to replicate what we do !!
Hypothetically, what you are claiming is that if we (at PWB) apply 15 different 'treatments' that YOU can replicate those 15 different 'treatments' - and, even better - that if the 10th 'treatment' we do is something as unusual as heating the basic Foil material in Rape seed oil for 20 minutes - that YOU would have known (guessed /worked out) THAT as well !!!

You can't replicate our 'treatments' unless we tell you how to. That you could create some similar effect as some of our devices - that I would not doubt. If the effect is there to be found, then it is there to be found, by mere mortals and human beings !!! - that bit you are right about !! But other knowledge such as knowing what 'treatments' to do to make the Foil work just as effectively 'outside' the room - then that is something different !!

Regards,
May Belt.

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