In Reply to: RE: you've never heard of "cupped hands" distortion? posted by Hornlover on February 22, 2017 at 08:50:14:
BUT, a lot of it IS subjective... not so much the FACT that port resonance is a form of distortion BY DESIGN which drives port lovers nuts when you point it out no matter how many sources you cite that note all of the" lack of woofer control, overhang, phase distortion, one not bass, RESONANCE, and port chuffing etc. issues that have been well known for half a century. they refuse to hear it and attack en mass in defense of their BIG LIE. standing up to hoardes of such trolls got me banned at one site.
in telling how i really feel, you will note, i freely admit my personal biases towards a sound that is fast and as resonance free as possible. i LOVED the sound of a pair of maggie MG12s driven by a tube amp for their unbelievable transient speed, ESPECIALLY in what i consider to be their "best bass ever" that thwacks like nothing can on drums, but was really put off by the tinfoil pinging sound of the full sized first pair of maggies i heard as well as being driven out of the room by an obscenely spitty/resonant pair of large maggies.
it drives me nuts that companies DELIBERATELY make lousy "acoustic suspension" speakers under $1,000. NHT superzeros are nice, but their soft dome tweeters suck on cowbells, while the energy RC10s i owned had excellent drivers that ran circles around zeros with better speed, detail and top to bottom extension, but that suffered from unbearable cabinet resonances when you put their port plugs in forcing owners to chose which form of resonant distortion is least objectionable.
yes, i have my biases, BUT i don't try to impose them on others and really don't like it when others, especially uppity port lovers when it comes to audio, try to impose theirs on me and have the nerve to tell me what not to do in MY SYSTEM.
having had the same argument 100 times with blockheads who CLAIM physics ignoring "superior fidelity" which is BASED on distortion, who get an attitude about it, and who refuse to accept ANY facts from reputable sources, including numerous speaker manufacturers without EVER bringing a drop of PROOF behind their misguided ramblings with insufferable attitudes has put a chip on my shoulder as i just can't abide by blatant denial of facts.
FACT: acoustic suspension speakers are less efficient and extended than bass reflex. i can live with that when that's what it takes to get the least distorted tight thumping bass possible. at least i freely admit the limitations inherent in my choice of sound where port lovers seem to be totally lacking a similar intellectual honesty with a confirmation bias AGAINST learning any of the science.
i learned the science AFTER i found what i did like as i wanted to know WHY big ported speakers sound so fake and bloated TO ME while cheap little sealed ones sounded so much less distorted. i also learned about moving mass and how that too is an enemy of transients.
when it comes to horn tweeters, YES my knowledge isn't as extensive as it's never been a subject of interest to me as my ears have always told me they sound spitty and shrieky just as ports sound sluggish and boomy.
i would bet a nickel, merely based on my understanding of physics, that a quality ribbon will walk all over ANY compression driver in a horn in a waterfall plot simply because they're based on reflections which delay & blur sound vs. a direct radiating ribbon/AMT/planar which tends to have much higher extension. THAT alone, really, should be telling. compression drivers can't do over 18kHz because they're too massive to be able to move that fast. i'd bet another nickel on that.
that reminds me of another debate i got into with someone who lost their freakin' mind trying to separate extension from transient speed and ignore the effects of mass on both. to SOME EXTENT, yeah, i imagine you can overcome the mass issue with stronger magnetic fields, but there's a REASON why soft domes only rated to 22kHz on a good day can't do cowbells like a ribbon rated to 40kHz... moving mass, and the extension limits, or limitations, are both related to the same issue... how fast the driver is capable of moving.
as to cone tweeters... who would ever use THOSE in any serious system? i've always considered them a cheap joke.
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Topic - how many real world watts can a 20w ribbon tweeter take? - thump 20:59:01 02/20/17 (40)
- for all the ribbon haters... watch a ribbon destroy an EV horn - thump 00:52:35 03/31/17 (0)
- RE: how many real world watts can a 20w ribbon tweeter take? - Inmate51 08:46:52 03/21/17 (1)
- RE: speaker design cookbook - thump 00:38:13 03/31/17 (0)
- if you can't talk about RIBBONS, why are you here?! - thump 23:36:38 03/10/17 (0)
- behold, a Raal ribbon DESTROYS a resonant B&C horn - thump 02:49:03 02/25/17 (7)
- RE: behold, a Raal ribbon DESTROYS a resonant B&C horn - hollowboy 21:52:55 03/06/17 (0)
- Are you here to ask for help or to argue? - Edp 10:17:41 02/27/17 (3)
- RE: Are you here to ask for help or to argue? - thump 23:17:21 03/10/17 (1)
- May I suggest de-caff. - Edp 12:11:26 03/20/17 (0)
- RE: Are you here to ask for help or to argue? - thump 16:44:41 03/10/17 (0)
- RE: behold, a Raal ribbon DESTROYS a resonant B&C horn - Scholl 07:11:32 02/26/17 (0)
- RE: behold, a Raal ribbon DESTROYS a resonant B&C horn - tomservo 04:57:49 02/25/17 (0)
- RE: how many real world watts can a 20w ribbon tweeter take? - ozzyboy 14:26:49 02/23/17 (0)
- RE: how many real world watts can a 20w ribbon tweeter take? - thetubeguy1954 15:51:19 02/22/17 (0)
- 115 db - sorry that is going to need a horn. - Edp 12:26:33 02/22/17 (0)
- Beymas Take 160 watts... - Sebrof 15:39:05 02/21/17 (0)
- RE: how many real world watts can a 20w ribbon tweeter take? - tomservo 08:45:25 02/21/17 (1)
- watts measure power; energy is the time integral of power - mhardy6647 14:45:21 02/21/17 (0)
- The energy content of music in the treble is usually pretty low - mhardy6647 03:05:41 02/21/17 (21)
- RE: The energy content of music in the treble is usually pretty low - freddyi 02:38:41 02/22/17 (0)
- RE: horn tweeters - thump 11:33:33 02/21/17 (15)
- sub 30 watt compression drivers - thump 22:52:13 02/21/17 (1)
- RE: sub 30 watt compression drivers - Hornlover 08:58:34 02/22/17 (0)
- believe as you like (nt) - mhardy6647 14:46:23 02/21/17 (12)
- you've never heard of "cupped hands" distortion? - thump 22:42:36 02/21/17 (11)
- RE: you've never heard of "cupped hands" distortion? - tomservo 16:09:27 02/24/17 (5)
- RE: you've never heard of "cupped hands" distortion? - Inmate51 21:37:01 02/24/17 (4)
- RE: you've never heard of "cupped hands" distortion? - thump 17:41:32 03/10/17 (0)
- RE: you've never heard of "cupped hands" distortion? - tomservo 05:02:26 02/25/17 (2)
- RE: you've never heard of "cupped hands" distortion? - hollowboy 23:20:28 02/22/17 (0)
- RE: you've never heard of "cupped hands" distortion? - Coner 09:30:54 02/22/17 (1)
- RE: And you can hear up to 40Khz?. Amazing. - thump 17:14:31 03/10/17 (0)
- RE: you've never heard of "cupped hands" distortion? - Hornlover 08:50:14 02/22/17 (1)
- telling what i really feel - thump 01:57:33 02/25/17 (0)
- RE: The energy content of music in the treble is usually pretty low - Bill Fitzmaurice 05:18:18 02/21/17 (3)Follow Ups
- telling what i really feel - thump 01:57:33 02/25/17 (0)