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Critic's Corner Discuss a review. Provide constructive feedback. Talk to the industry. |
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In Reply to: Hearing polarity changes posted by unclestu52 on May 12, 2007 at 22:43:03:
For those who think that they hear absolute polarity, they should contemplate the following.Dan Shanefield, BAS speaker, vol. 17, no. 3 :
"once you see evidence of an additional factor which might really be causing the observed results, you should never ignore it in further studies. Instead, it must be carefully eliminated".
It has been shown (by Shanefield 1995 and Furindle 1976) that introducing distortion into the playback system makes polarity inversion more audible.
This reminds me of people claiming to hear the benefits of supertweeters. Then Kaoru and Shogo demonstrated in their AES aper that this is due to intermodulation distortion.So if it is possible that audibility inversion is audible because of good ole harmonic distortion, then that parameter should be investigated. But no.....
One answer to that problem is DSP. How many consumer speakers use DSP ?
Fortunately there are mags like Stereophile and Soundstage that provide meaurements. The ideal response curves are known from literature, such as JA's AES paper (available on Stereophile's website). One look at the graphs and you know the value of the speaker. But no....
Klaus
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Topic - Acoustic polarity, again - KlausR. 02:36:41 05/06/07 (113)
- Reply to John Curl's suggestion to read Schroeder's "Models of hearing" - KlausR. 07:12:49 05/15/07 (12)
- Re: Reply to John Curl's suggestion to read Schroeder's "Models of hearing" - john curl 11:05:29 05/16/07 (9)
- Re: We had not refined the terminology yet. - KlausR. 23:18:46 05/16/07 (7)
- Re: We had not refined the terminology yet. - john curl 21:23:08 05/17/07 (6)
- Had a bad day, John? - KlausR. 23:34:05 05/17/07 (5)
- Re: Had a bad day, John? - john curl 13:38:50 05/18/07 (4)
- Re: Had a bad day, John? - john curl 15:44:03 05/20/07 (0)
- Now it's throwing mud, you're improving by the day,John! - KlausR. 23:03:11 05/18/07 (2)
- Re: Now it's throwing mud, you're improving by the day,John! - john curl 23:11:09 05/18/07 (1)
- Now it's insults, it's getting better by the minute! - KlausR. 00:17:59 05/19/07 (0)
- Re: Reply to John Curl's suggestion to read Schroeder's "Models of hearing" - john curl 11:12:55 05/16/07 (0)
- John's post is still there but for some unknown reasons I did not find it any more (nt) - KlausR. 09:03:52 05/15/07 (0)
- Try listening. nt - markrohr 08:24:20 05/15/07 (0)
- Its not a battery, not that simple. - tomservo 07:40:38 05/07/07 (0)
- some crossovers invert polarity - Kloss 06:46:27 05/07/07 (1)
- Good man! nt - clarkjohnsen 07:59:45 05/07/07 (0)
- This suggests that speaker designers either don't think polarity is important or don't care. - Norm 06:31:46 05/07/07 (2)
- Re: This suggests that speaker designers either don't think polarity is important or don't care. - unclestu52 18:16:43 05/12/07 (0)
- Re: your findings should be made public - KlausR. 07:19:56 05/07/07 (0)
- That's right, why bother? - markrohr 08:29:05 05/06/07 (41)
- Re : It might only make half your record collection sound better, for free - KlausR. 10:48:26 05/06/07 (40)
- "80% of the speakers aren't, so why bother?" - markrohr 03:47:52 05/07/07 (27)
- Because... - KlausR. 04:29:23 05/07/07 (26)
- Is this - markrohr 03:15:30 05/09/07 (25)
- It took you a while but... - KlausR. 05:01:51 05/09/07 (24)
- Re: It took you a while but... - Doc Gaw 10:02:10 05/20/07 (0)
- "So if polarity inversion is audible with sub-peforming speakers only ..." - Dave Pogue 06:29:40 05/11/07 (5)
- Whoever cannot recognize absolute polarity, shall be deemed superfluous - KlausR. 23:10:42 05/11/07 (3)
- I love that! - Dave Pogue 04:49:20 05/12/07 (2)
- Re: I love that! - KlausR. 05:41:22 05/12/07 (1)
- Tell you what. - Dave Pogue 07:21:12 05/12/07 (0)
- Even more inaudible . . . - markrohr 14:43:18 05/11/07 (0)
- Re: It took you a while but... - unclestu52 11:59:26 05/09/07 (10)
- "In the case of Classical music, polarities become a mixed bag with the advent of heavy multimiking" . . . no. - markrohr 11:04:42 05/10/07 (3)
- Re: "In the case of Classical music, polarities become a mixed bag with the advent of heavy multimiking" . . . no. - unclestu52 01:19:19 05/12/07 (2)
- Re: "In the case of Classical music, polarities become a mixed bag with the advent of heavy multimiking" . . . no. - markrohr 04:00:39 05/14/07 (0)
- Timing errors - KlausR. 02:44:03 05/12/07 (0)
- Re: The answer is not to accept the status quo - KlausR. 00:14:56 05/10/07 (5)
- "When Dr. Heyser was president of AES, that would have been the very moment for Clark." ROTFLOL! - clarkjohnsen 09:28:29 05/11/07 (4)
- Actually, I didn't do a search on that one, but... - KlausR. 00:02:24 05/12/07 (3)
- Nor have you much searched the Wood effect -- that's the whole problem. - clarkjohnsen 10:10:02 05/12/07 (2)
- Three questions, well, actually four - KlausR. 21:43:54 05/12/07 (1)
- "still not enough solid evidence that polarity inversion is audible on properly designed speakers" - markrohr 11:14:28 05/09/07 (2)
- Re: Why should anyone pay attention to you? - KlausR. 00:02:07 05/10/07 (1)
- "asymmetric clicks" - markrohr 11:09:22 05/10/07 (0)
- "There's still not enough solid evidence that polarity inversion is audible on properly designed speakers." Where's... - clarkjohnsen 09:00:04 05/09/07 (2)
- C'mon, Clark, you know what I mean! nt - KlausR. 09:29:17 05/09/07 (1)
- Yes, I know: It's all up to you, what's "solid". Or "convincing". Some scientist! nt - clarkjohnsen 09:41:13 05/09/07 (0)
- Indeed, Why bother paying for low - unclestu52 13:45:09 05/06/07 (0)
- A good reason perhaps to move up to better speakers? Ones without high amounts of phase distortion? nt - clarkjohnsen 13:25:01 05/06/07 (10)
- Re: A good reason perhaps to move up to better speakers? Ones without high amounts of phase distortion? nt - KlausR. 02:10:28 05/07/07 (8)
- Re: A good reason perhaps to move up to better speakers? Ones without high amounts of phase distortion? nt - tomservo 07:53:14 05/08/07 (1)
- It's Klein+Hummel O500C - KlausR. 09:15:19 05/08/07 (0)
- Re: A good reason perhaps to move up to better speakers? Ones without high amounts of phase distortion? nt - tomservo 17:55:24 05/07/07 (2)
- That might explain his, ah, lack... nt - clarkjohnsen 09:13:47 05/08/07 (0)
- DSP it is indeed. - KlausR. 23:50:26 05/07/07 (0)
- So tell us then, why you can't hear polarity? nt - clarkjohnsen 07:56:47 05/07/07 (2)
- I guess it's my gear, it's probably too good (nt) - KlausR. 00:02:01 05/08/07 (1)
- You're funny... for a European... nt - clarkjohnsen 09:12:51 05/08/07 (0)
- Turning over a new leaf, Clark? - unclestu52 15:17:58 05/06/07 (0)
- Re: Acoustic polarity, again - tomservo 06:42:48 05/06/07 (11)
- "VERY few multi-way speakers do it at all." Lucky us, then! Who have... - clarkjohnsen 13:47:44 05/06/07 (9)
- Re: "VERY few multi-way speakers do it at all." Lucky us, then! Who have... - tomservo 14:45:01 05/06/07 (8)
- Nice story. Mine goes like this: - clarkjohnsen 07:51:59 05/07/07 (7)
- Re: Nice story. Mine goes like this: - tomservo 10:46:24 05/07/07 (6)
- On the CD, compared to what there was to record with before ones and zero’s... - clarkjohnsen 13:48:19 05/07/07 (5)
- Re: On the CD, compared to what there was to record with before ones and zero’s... - tomservo 14:28:48 05/07/07 (4)
- Hmmm... but in the early days even great old analog tapes transferred to CD sounded bad. Moreover... - clarkjohnsen 08:52:55 05/08/07 (2)
- Re: Hmmm... but in the early days even great old analog tapes transferred to CD sounded bad. Moreover... - tomservo 10:03:08 05/08/07 (1)
- Also who ever keeps spouting Nyquist... needs to be shown the light." Or, the door... - clarkjohnsen 10:14:52 05/08/07 (0)
- Better be careful ! - E-Stat 16:43:05 05/07/07 (0)
- Can't access your forum - KlausR. 07:49:13 05/06/07 (0)
- Lotsa reasons - Dave Pogue 04:53:43 05/06/07 (39)
- Re: Lotsa reasons - KlausR. 07:33:20 05/06/07 (38)
- "There's not enough convincing evidence." Hmm... What's the scientific criterion for "convincing"? Where... - clarkjohnsen 13:33:52 05/06/07 (35)
- Re: However, all the evidence you may need is in the very book described in your referenced article - KlausR. 07:08:36 05/07/07 (34)
- Mr. Blackburn is sorely mistaken on this topic, and I have published a rebuttal. BUT: - clarkjohnsen 07:55:44 05/07/07 (33)
- Re: You avoided answering my question - KlausR. 09:03:26 05/07/07 (32)
- Contrary to the contempt and condescension shown by tlyyra below... - clarkjohnsen 13:57:09 05/07/07 (31)
- And this you call a rebuttal? - KlausR. 00:04:55 05/08/07 (1)
- "Your 'evidence' is not convincing." Back, as always, to that. I.e.... - clarkjohnsen 09:11:50 05/08/07 (1)
- From the way you present your POV - Dave Pogue 07:44:23 05/06/07 (1)
- "Not enough convincing evidence . . ." - markrohr 08:27:03 05/06/07 (0)
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