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Critic's Corner Discuss a review. Provide constructive feedback. Talk to the industry. |
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In Reply to: Consumer-oriented... posted by mkuller on March 20, 2007 at 14:10:22:
"Blind ABX-type testing is useless for equipment reviews. Its purpose is to determine if there is a 'difference' between two components - not to determine what the difference is. And many think they are unvalidated and useless for even that purpose."I addressed most of your points in other notes. I would point out that I never suggested (or even mentioned) the use of ABX-type testing. What I am recommended is some form of blind testing, knowing that any will be a compromise. (I'm willing to leave the choice to Stereophile, since any other selection would be immediately attacked.) In any event, please don't put words in my mouth.
Jim
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Follow Ups Full ThreadTopic - Characteristics of consumer-oriented audio publications - Avocat 09:37:07 03/20/07 (139)
- Then Buy Hi-Fi Choice - RGA 02:40:53 04/21/07 (0)
- Well, your rambling troll post finally paid off... - SF tech 11:27:23 03/21/07 (12)
- Re: Well, your rambling troll post finally paid off... - Avocat 14:36:12 03/21/07 (11)
- You say, "But I enjoy reading Sterephile." - SF tech 14:50:43 03/21/07 (10)
- Re: You say, "But I enjoy reading Sterephile." - Avocat 13:45:43 03/22/07 (6)
- Here's the problem... - SF tech 16:26:41 03/22/07 (5)
- Re: Here's the problem... - Avocat 19:19:12 03/22/07 (3)
- Let's keep it civil, OK? - SF tech 20:05:01 03/22/07 (2)
- Re: Let's keep it civil, OK? Agreed. - Avocat 10:13:58 03/23/07 (1)
- "This is not questioning my integrity?" - SF tech 11:58:54 03/23/07 (0)
- Seconded. -t - Bruce Kendall 18:22:31 03/22/07 (0)
- I meant it as a joke - ray m 10:07:51 03/22/07 (2)
- Yeah, I hear you... - SF tech 12:20:28 03/22/07 (1)
- Re: Yeah, I hear you... - ray m 04:07:14 03/26/07 (0)
- Re: Characteristics of consumer-oriented audio publications - John Atkinson 04:23:25 03/21/07 (84)
- Your blind speaker tests were the best tests ever done in Stereophile including the JGH "golden era" - Richard BassNut Greene 09:17:29 03/23/07 (1)
- Based on that information it's hard to imagine we won't - bjh 17:41:57 03/23/07 (0)
- Re: "As an editor, I have no future if I publish material that people have little desire to read." - Ivan303 16:12:44 03/21/07 (3)
- Re: Re: "As an editor, I have no future if I publish material that people have little desire to read." - John Atkinson 04:11:40 03/22/07 (2)
- Editors generally understand this. Publishers generally don't NT - Jazz Inmate 15:05:23 04/05/07 (0)
- EXACTLY RIGHT!!! (nt) - fastjazz 06:04:44 03/24/07 (0)
- editors and reviewers should prove their listening skills - ray m 12:52:07 03/21/07 (14)
- Should readers be tested for comprehension and gullibility skills? - JTimothyA 20:24:00 03/21/07 (1)
- DBT reviewers. - ray m 12:33:52 03/22/07 (1)
- blind testing would destroy false gods...... - jdouglas51 15:09:58 03/21/07 (2)
- Sounds like you have discovered your niche then! - Bruce Kendall 18:40:25 03/21/07 (1)
- Re: Sounds like you have discovered your niche then! - ray m 21:39:50 03/21/07 (1)
- Let me ask you a question based on your system: - robert young 14:14:55 03/21/07 (2)
- Re: Perfectly stated. [nt] - alan m. kafton 12:48:08 03/25/07 (0)
- Eggs Ackley...(nt) - mkuller 14:20:14 03/21/07 (0)
- I have found just reading their descriptions of what they hear - Bruce Kendall 13:40:08 03/21/07 (0)
- Are you Bass Nut in disguise??? (nt) - mkuller 13:15:27 03/21/07 (4)
- Hey Mule I'm a subjective audiophile and think blind testing is a waste of time this year - Richard BassNut Greene 08:58:25 03/23/07 (3)
- FYI, I have done a test or two with wires - Bruce Kendall 18:53:08 03/23/07 (2)
- Regardless of what... - mkuller 10:38:54 03/24/07 (1)
- There is more than one coincidence in town, buddy. - Bruce Kendall 08:26:56 03/25/07 (0)
- Personally, I liked your group test. - Larry I 11:48:05 03/21/07 (0)
- "So far, all you have done is offer unsupported opinion." The trap closes! nt - clarkjohnsen 11:18:33 03/21/07 (0)
- Not surprising... - mkuller 10:32:08 03/21/07 (10)
- Re: Not surprising... - Avocat 11:05:57 03/21/07 (7)
- Maybe you'd prefer... - mkuller 11:15:09 03/21/07 (6)
- Re: Maybe you'd prefer... - Avocat 13:31:44 03/21/07 (5)
- Avocat, no magic here... - Ozzie 14:01:44 03/21/07 (3)
- Rolloff of what? - E-Stat 12:39:05 03/22/07 (0)
- You missed it... - mkuller 14:14:39 03/21/07 (1)
- Link to Atkinson-Krueger Debate.. - Pat D 22:52:32 04/04/07 (0)
- Avocat, no magic here... - Ozzie 14:00:51 03/21/07 (0)
- Yes, that and more. - Ozzie 11:00:02 03/21/07 (1)
- Yup...(nt) - mkuller 11:08:10 03/21/07 (0)
- The Stereophile reviewer panels from the early 90s - John N 08:17:48 03/21/07 (0)
- Re: Characteristics of consumer-oriented audio publications - Avocat 08:13:30 03/21/07 (48)
- This isn't only a dead horse, it is unidentifiable. - Bruce Kendall 11:07:04 03/21/07 (5)
- Ahh, that name... - robert young 14:05:41 03/21/07 (3)
- At least he helped us fine tune our drumming skills. - Bruce Kendall 14:17:26 03/21/07 (2)
- And a second battalion is in training over at PropHeads.... - robert young 15:32:07 03/21/07 (1)
- I used to think it was just a few loose screws, - Bruce Kendall 15:40:36 03/21/07 (0)
- Anyone want to take a walk down memory lane? - Bruce Kendall 12:13:05 03/21/07 (0)
- Another Inquisition begins :-( - John Atkinson 10:37:33 03/21/07 (40)
- Re:discussion continues : Good suggestions seconded - Avocat 10:21:29 03/24/07 (0)
- Re: Another Inquisition begins :-( - Avocat 09:27:45 03/24/07 (1)
- Why so much personal rancor, Avocat?? - robert young 10:09:11 03/25/07 (0)
- Thanks for responding John... - Arvind Kohli 09:42:12 03/22/07 (0)
- Re: Another Inquisition begins :-( - Avocat 12:33:46 03/21/07 (35)
- The Inquisition Continues - John Atkinson 08:03:58 03/22/07 (32)
- Re: The Inquisition Continues - imispgh@yahoo.com 11:06:26 03/22/07 (31)
- Re: The Inquisition Continues - John Atkinson 04:15:49 03/23/07 (30)
- Re: The Inquisition Continues - theaudiohobby 18:31:54 03/24/07 (29)
- Re: The Inquisition Continues - John Atkinson 04:31:07 03/25/07 (28)
- Re: The Inquisition Continues - theaudiohobby 10:43:35 03/25/07 (27)
- Re: The Inquisition Continues - John Atkinson 15:56:20 03/25/07 (26)
- Re: The Inquisition Continues - theaudiohobby 01:34:45 03/26/07 (25)
- So, what conclusion can you draw - E-Stat 05:07:26 03/26/07 (24)
- Re: That question has been answered. - theaudiohobby 05:28:15 03/26/07 (23)
- What makes you think that Mr. Atkinson's - E-Stat 05:41:22 03/26/07 (22)
- Re: What makes you think that Mr. Atkinson's - theaudiohobby 07:35:55 03/26/07 (21)
- Re: What makes you think that Mr. Atkinson's - John Atkinson 11:14:34 03/26/07 (13)
- Re: It does not work that way... - theaudiohobby 03:35:12 03/27/07 (12)
- Re: It does not work that way... - John Atkinson 03:55:56 03/27/07 (11)
- C'mon, John - E-Stat 07:16:27 03/27/07 (7)
- Re: C'mon, John - theaudiohobby 11:39:05 03/27/07 (5)
- I didn't have any questions for Mr. Atkinson - E-Stat 17:35:12 03/27/07 (4)
- Re: I didn't have any questions for Mr. Atkinson - theaudiohobby 18:59:11 03/27/07 (3)
- I would say facetious, not malicious. - robert young 15:51:36 03/29/07 (2)
- Thank you - E-Stat 16:21:49 03/29/07 (1)
- You're welcome. - robert young 18:54:40 03/29/07 (0)
- Re: C'mon, John - kerr 07:36:55 03/27/07 (0)
- Re: It does not work that way... - theaudiohobby 04:42:55 03/27/07 (2)
- Re: It does not work that way... - John Atkinson 13:14:34 03/27/07 (1)
- Re: It does not work that way... - Avocat 15:18:43 04/01/07 (0)
- The answer being - E-Stat 07:40:54 03/26/07 (6)
- Re: The answer being - theaudiohobby 09:07:46 03/26/07 (5)
- So which is it - answer the question... - mkuller 14:14:02 03/26/07 (4)
- On a related topic... - E-Stat 16:12:37 03/26/07 (3)
- Re: On a related topic... - kerr 04:52:15 03/27/07 (2)
- Yes, Ms. Loken is a fine example - E-Stat 06:04:57 03/27/07 (1)
- A. Slim and None - kerr 06:35:17 03/27/07 (0)
- Inquisin me this - JTimothyA 19:47:59 03/21/07 (0)
- And it continues.... - robert young 14:04:01 03/21/07 (0)
- John, I second 'Avocat's followup questions [nt] - Arvind Kohli 09:48:03 03/21/07 (0)
- Re: Characteristics of consumer-oriented audio publications - Avocat 15:49:31 03/20/07 (1)
- We'll do our best without you!! ;) - robert young 16:34:33 03/20/07 (0)
- Consumer-oriented... - mkuller 14:10:22 03/20/07 (8)
- We are doing that Mr. Kuller - jdarby 10:13:12 03/21/07 (6)
- Forget 4 reviewers... - Ozzie 13:31:28 03/21/07 (3)
- Ozzie..the problem with that is... - jdarby 16:10:31 03/23/07 (0)
- Re: Forget 4 reviewers... - andy19191 06:20:49 03/22/07 (1)
- Andy... - jdarby 16:30:56 03/23/07 (0)
- Self-promotion? (nt) - mkuller 10:15:16 03/21/07 (1)
- Re: Self-promotion? (nt) - jdarby 12:50:45 03/21/07 (1)
- Re: Consumer-oriented... - Avocat 15:12:24 03/20/07 (1)
- Interesting POV... - robert young 14:07:15 03/20/07 (11)
- That may be your take, and your reasons for reading audio mags, but..... - Rick W 10:54:56 03/21/07 (8)
- We may be neighbors, but we're miles apart... - robert young 13:56:50 03/21/07 (7)
- Rick, why did you delete your reply? - robert young 10:06:54 03/22/07 (6)
- Robert, I just wanted to refine it. Here it is. - Rick W 10:43:54 03/22/07 (5)
- We're getting closer to discovering the critical points... - robert young 10:24:20 03/24/07 (4)
- Guess we still disagree. - Rick W 23:49:02 03/24/07 (3)
- Yes, that we do. - robert young 08:01:41 03/25/07 (2)
- Maybe not all that far apart. - Rick W 09:54:31 03/25/07 (1)
- Not far at all...How'd that happen??? ;) - robert young 10:19:13 03/25/07 (0)
- Re: Interesting POV... - Avocat 15:40:35 03/20/07 (1)
- your reply didn't seem to work.... - robert young 16:36:02 03/20/07 (0)
- Re: Characteristics of consumer-oriented audio publications - TomLarson 12:27:47 03/20/07 (0)
- One or two things. - Kal Rubinson 12:06:54 03/20/07 (7)
- Re: One or two things. - Avocat 12:57:46 03/20/07 (5)
- Re: One or two things. - Kal Rubinson 13:19:35 03/20/07 (2)
- Re: One or two things. - Avocat 13:56:30 03/20/07 (1)
- Re: One or two things. - ray m 06:30:02 03/21/07 (0)
- "The excellent review of the Wagner Ring recording." That was the ever-dependable Richard Lehnert. - clarkjohnsen 13:18:39 03/20/07 (0)
- Re: One or two things. - TomLarson 13:05:43 03/20/07 (0)
- Re: One or two things. - TomLarson 12:19:07 03/20/07 (0)
- Understanding the reviewer - AmanteDiMusica 10:46:25 03/20/07 (7)
- Re: Understanding the reviewer - Avocat 11:24:20 03/20/07 (6)
- Sorry, you can't force that square peg into the round hole - Sordidman 13:40:07 03/20/07 (3)
- Re: Sorry, you can't force that square peg into the round hole - Avocat 15:03:01 03/20/07 (2)
- "Market-driven" vs "consumer-oriented" - not necessarily the same (nt) - mkuller 14:04:08 03/21/07 (0)
- Well, they're NOT consumer oriented... - SF tech 19:27:05 03/20/07 (0)
- Re: Understanding the reviewer - bjh 11:48:35 03/20/07 (1)
- Re: Understanding the reviewer - TomLarson 12:21:31 03/20/07 (0)
Follow Ups
- Re: Consumer-oriented... - Avocat 15:12:24 03/20/07 (1)
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